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Dust Collection placement in shop

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Forum topic by Zvonko posted 01-05-2021 11:55 AM 710 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Zvonko

113 posts in 824 days


01-05-2021 11:55 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question

Hello,

I’m almost finished with my new barn/workshop. Planning out how to lay everything out and I’m looking for some advice on placement of dust collector.

There will be a 2nd floor to the barn that will just be used for storage. This morning I thought “why not put the DC unit up there and just have pipe/hose go through the floor to the 1st floor?”

What do you guys think of that? Will that make it harder for the DC to extract the chips/dust? Has anyone done something like this?

Thanks.

Zvonko

-- You can't always control WHAT happens, but you can always control HOW you respond.


16 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6834 posts in 3503 days


#1 posted 01-05-2021 01:04 PM

Some of it depends on what collector you have as well as the duct you install. One that is barely capable would struggle with the height, but one of the stronger units would not. It’s been done by a few folks….I am not one of them. Be aware, unless you work out something different you will have to go upstairs to empty the bust bin/bags. Also, if your downstairs is heated/cooled and the upstairs isn’t you might lose conditioned air.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Ruscal's profile

Ruscal

73 posts in 188 days


#2 posted 01-05-2021 02:03 PM

+1 on what Fred said about adequate power and also pipe size. Too big going up for your DC and you will lose velocity. I have a similar set up but my DC is below my shop with good access. Someone else just asked a similar question and this was my response:

If you have any kind of fossil fuel heat or combustion appliance forget the whole idea unless you design a way to vent the air that went through the collector back into the shop. You will create a negative pressure situation that can bring carbon monoxide into your shop and potentially kill you.

You will lose heat or AC. I have a similar setup and its not that bad but it happens. Depends on how much it runs.

Consider a chip collector of some kind on the shop level before the DC. The majority of what you collect will be in it. Then you just have fines in the bag in the attic.

Also consider venting outside with no bags, just the chip collector. You also vent out a lot of noise so you have to really be detached.

As for motor heat an external fan thermostatically switched would help.

If you have bags you still need to go up and shake the fines out of the top bag regularly.

-- Have a hobby? You should have a business.

View Zvonko's profile

Zvonko

113 posts in 824 days


#3 posted 01-05-2021 11:36 PM



Some of it depends on what collector you have as well as the duct you install. One that is barely capable would struggle with the height, but one of the stronger units would not. It s been done by a few folks….I am not one of them. Be aware, unless you work out something different you will have to go upstairs to empty the bust bin/bags. Also, if your downstairs is heated/cooled and the upstairs isn t you might lose conditioned air.

- Fred Hargis

At the moment, I’m still using a shop vac with a cyclone bucket attached in-line. Looking to get something more effective in the new shop.

I hadn’t thought about the “losing conditioned air” situation. Thanks.

-- You can't always control WHAT happens, but you can always control HOW you respond.

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

943 posts in 2471 days


#4 posted 01-06-2021 02:37 PM

Also you would have to remember to go up stairs and keep and eye on it. Don’t forget to empty the bag.
I just bought a new Powermatic DC, and it has a pleated filter on it. I have to remember to give the cleaning handle a spin every so often.

-- John

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ibewjon

2268 posts in 3803 days


#5 posted 01-06-2021 02:48 PM

I also considered the walk in attic dust collector. But then hauling the bags down, knowing when it is full, and losing the heated/cooled air won the argument. I put it in the corner of the shop, and ran a duct each way from there. I have the jet pleated filter on a 2 hp no name collector. And the noise is not bad, just a nice background him. About 70 decibels if I remember correctly. I can’t even hear it with the noise of the planet, jointer, ts. I ran the 5” duct about 3’ high off the floor behind the machines. I don’t have the loss associated with pulling the chips up to ceiling mounted ductwork. And I keep all of my heated and cooled air, and no CO to worry about.

View Zvonko's profile

Zvonko

113 posts in 824 days


#6 posted 01-06-2021 03:08 PM

Glad I asked. You all bring up great points about having it on 2nd floor.

I’ll find a place on 1st floor.

What about venting it outside? Is anyone doing that? Should I make this question another forum topic?

Thanks again.

-- You can't always control WHAT happens, but you can always control HOW you respond.

View Ruscal's profile

Ruscal

73 posts in 188 days


#7 posted 01-06-2021 04:13 PM

Plenty of venting outside info online. That is the best situation for air quality. But you have to deal with the air loss thing, carbon monoxide problem if applicable, and noise ( a lot of noise outside). Also the lack of backpressure could cause your motor to run past rated amps, but easy enough to check with an ammeter and fix with piping restriction in system.

-- Have a hobby? You should have a business.

View newwoodbutcher's profile

newwoodbutcher

849 posts in 3860 days


#8 posted 01-11-2021 10:10 PM

I would also consider moving the whole dust collector out doors. Just for noise reduction. My DC is way to loud to be in the same room I’m in working.

-- Ken

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newwoodbutcher

849 posts in 3860 days


#9 posted 01-11-2021 10:11 PM

Or perhaps enclose it in a sound deadening closet.

-- Ken

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2268 posts in 3803 days


#10 posted 01-11-2021 10:53 PM

Outside, you lose your heated or cooled air. In a closet, you need an air vent to return the air pulled through the dc. With air comes noise. With proper hearing protection, the noise should not be an isseu.

View WarnerK's profile

WarnerK

17 posts in 1493 days


#11 posted 01-12-2021 03:32 AM

If you really want to educate yourself on all aspects of dust collection, go to http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php. Bill Pentz has done a great job of explaining things without getting too technical. One of the best DC for wood shops was designed by Pentz and is sold by ClearVue (https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/).

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WarnerK

17 posts in 1493 days


#12 posted 01-12-2021 03:53 AM

Use of flexible hose for duct runs along with tees and 90 degree elbows can rapidly increase loss. I used thin wall PVC for my duct runs. 6” for the mains with 4” drops, 4” homemade blast gates, and flexible 4” hose for connecting between blast gate and the machine. I used 45 degree “Y” for branches and drops. And I used two 45 degree elbows spaced at least 6 inches apart for all my 90 degree turns.

View Zvonko's profile

Zvonko

113 posts in 824 days


#13 posted 01-16-2021 01:31 PM



If you really want to educate yourself on all aspects of dust collection, go to http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php. Bill Pentz has done a great job of explaining things without getting too technical. One of the best DC for wood shops was designed by Pentz and is sold by ClearVue (https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/).

- WarnerK

Thanks for the tip. Boy is THAT a big rabbit hole. I had visited that before and read a lot of it. SO much good info, but a bit overwhelming and plenty scary. I knew I had to be careful working with sharp power and hand tools, but I never gave dust collection much thought.

After reading as much as I could on internet in general and Bill’s site specifically, I’m freaking out a little. It seems like there is no totally safe way to work in the shop. Bill got sick even though he was wearing a respirator. He also said that a DC that has sat unused in a workshop for months will put out dangerous levels of dust just from turning it on.

Anyway, I’m too interested in ww to give it up. From what I’ve gathered, this seems to be the way to go:
1. Always wear a respirator or mask in the shop because even normal movement stirs up the invisible dust
2. Vent DC outside, but be aware you’ll lose warm/cool air if you’re heating/cooling shop
3. Some mentioned using a heat exchanger to capture the heat before it goes outside. I’m not familiar with HVAC so I’m not sure how a heat exchanger works, but it sounds like it’s not cheap. Plus, there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on how effective it is.
4. Keep DC on 1st floor so it won’t have to work harder to bring everything up to 2nd floor
5. Use big (6”) pvc for the ducting and only reduce diameter when tool forces you to because of built-in DC
6. Create long 90° (2 45s with a straight section between them) instead of the sharp right angle ones to prevent blockage and improve air flow
7. Same thing when creating branches: use the 45° piece instead of a straight 90° T connector
8. Collecting dust AT the source is often not done well, but it is extremely important. Most equipment has DC as an afterthought and you’ll need to be a little creative to enhance it. Build dust hoods or enclosures below the machine

I’m sure I’ve forgotten something. Besides, Bill did most of the work. This post is more for my reference than anything. He has great info on his site, but it’s overload. Helps me to summarize it.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Once I have narrowed my choices down and designed a layout, I’ll try to remember to post here.

-- You can't always control WHAT happens, but you can always control HOW you respond.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2268 posts in 3803 days


#14 posted 01-16-2021 02:33 PM

Look at Wood magazine, issue 245, ‘Choose the right dust ducts’. More good info. Depending on DC size, 6” pvc may be too large of duct. Five inch may be better, that is what I used for a 2hp dc with pleated filter. Dust collection is a balance between enough air flow volume, and keeping enough velocity to keep the material suspended. I bought my long radius 90’s from oneida, and made my own y fittings with 4 or 5” branches to reduce the number of fittings.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7913 posts in 3923 days


#15 posted 01-16-2021 02:47 PM

IMO, shop dust collection by itself, is not enough. At this point my analogy of shop dust collection, as it is, is roughly equivalent to shoveling the snow off of your driveway. You get the most of the snow removed with a shovel, yet there still is a small layer of hard to get snow/ice still on the drive. IMO, that is about how efficient any dust collection truly is. To get the remaining snow/ice requires a push-broom and additional work.

Same is true for dust collectors… It just does NOT remove enough dust to make it a healthy environment to breath in. What I did to remedy this, was to add a DIY air filtration unit separate from the DC. This works so well, I added a second unit when I had to replace another in-house furnace unit a year or two ago. Inside each air filtration unit are these filters: #10 FPR, #7 FPR, #5 FPR, and beginning with a #1 FPR and driven with the squirrel cage furnace fan.

You can see this project here: https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/241361

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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