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Forum topic by nozborne posted 01-02-2021 01:31 AM 698 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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nozborne

7 posts in 442 days


01-02-2021 01:31 AM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collection vacuum air filtration

So I have been reading a lot on the topic and I feel like there isn’t a “standard” that I can easily apply to my situation. I currently have a HF collector that I hook up to one tool at a time. I came across some cheap 6” duct and want to use that for the trunks to my collector. Depending on the tool, I’d run the largest drop possible with gates to keep airflow to a single tool at a time. I’ll keep as much of it rigid as possible and adjust any bends to be sweeps instead of abrupt turns if possible. The longest trunk would be about 15’ total w a 90 bend about 10’ in.
I have a couple questions specific to this setup.
Any pitfalls do I need to be aware of?
Do I need a damper at one of the terminal ends for when I have smaller tools connected?
I’d like to do a super dust deputy but that’s only 4” and the XL version recommends a much larger blower so is it all a moot point?

The biggest driver for the 6” is that I got all the ductwork for a song. Since this is a hobby shop I am not too keen on throwing large wads of cash at it just yet.


11 replies so far

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3765 posts in 2854 days


#1 posted 01-02-2021 02:04 AM

Your biggest pitfall is the Horrible freight dust collector.
Save your money to buy a better unit preferably a cyclone then think about sinking money into ducting.
Good Luck

-- Aj

View Newbie17's profile

Newbie17

168 posts in 1517 days


#2 posted 01-02-2021 02:23 AM

How many hp is your dust collector? I’m not sure what a damper is, but I have a massive super overkill dust collector and always leave an extra gate or two open when running a machine. This way I don’t starve the dust collector motor. It works as expected. If you wanted, you can have a duct that doesn’t lead to a machine and is up high so it can be opened when using machines with small diameters. This will provide a dust scavenging feature to your system.

I think you covered a lot of this, but…

The main things to remember are:
1) minimize flexible ducting as much as possible (use rigid, smooth ducts)
2) avoid 90 degree bends, use two 45 degree bends instead. Use a wye instead of a T fitting when needed.
3) plan the layout to reduce the number and sharpness of turns
4) when reducing the diameter of the lines, do so as close to the machine as possible. Consider modifying your machines to accept larger ducting so adding reducers isn’t needed.

I wish I would have prepared for adding more machines. Now I have to reroute sections of my ducting.

View JohnDon's profile

JohnDon

156 posts in 2225 days


#3 posted 01-02-2021 02:45 AM

The 6” might be okay for horizontal (ceiling) runs, and the drop from the horizontal run to your dust collector, since your don’t need as much airspeed (FPM) to move dust in those directions. However, for vertical ducts- say from your tool to the overhead trunk- you’re fighting gravity, which needs higher airspeed, This means you’ll need 4” duct or hose for vertical connections.

I wouldn’t use a damper; for smaller (handheld) tools, that is, with dust ports less than 2.5”, you need a shop vac, which produces high vacuum but low air flow. Your dust collector will give high airflow at a much lower vacuum, so needs larger (to a point) ducts to work best.

The Super Dust Deputy has a 5” inlet, so you could use a 6” to 5” reducing adapter right at the inlet side; the outlet is 6”. The HF is marginal for that, and the XL is definitely out of its league. You might want to research building a Thien cyclone- there are a lot of HF applications.

Good luck, and remember that the best dust collector isn’t 100% effective- you should wear a good face mask for all dust producing activities.

View nozborne's profile

nozborne

7 posts in 442 days


#4 posted 01-02-2021 03:48 AM

I wish I could afford a better blower, but I have less than $75 in the blower, filter (not bag), and ductwork. It’s the 2hp HF if I’m not mistaken. Hard to pass it up.

Would it be better to run the trunk along the ground and keep the blower as close to ground as I can? Only one vertical run then close to the blower?

I have considered a Thien and I may still go that way. I just like that the cyclones generally have less loss of velocity/capacity and higher efficiency in terms of quantity of small particles captured.

I like the idea of a high gate to pull ambient air when running smaller tools. Seems like it’s worth a shot.

I think if I go 6” on the trunks then I can do a basic blower swap to upgrade if/when I get to that point. I just want to make sure the HF can handle it.

View pottz's profile (online now)

pottz

16218 posts in 2040 days


#5 posted 01-02-2021 03:55 AM



Your biggest pitfall is the Horrible freight dust collector.
Save your money to buy a better unit preferably a cyclone then think about sinking money into ducting.
Good Luck

- Aj2


+1 so tired of hearing guys buy the hf and then spending a lot of time and money to make it do what they want.
i agree with aj2,save your money and buy a real dust collector.

-- working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.

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nozborne

7 posts in 442 days


#6 posted 01-02-2021 04:35 AM


Your biggest pitfall is the Horrible freight dust collector.
Save your money to buy a better unit preferably a cyclone then think about sinking money into ducting.
Good Luck

- Aj2

+1 so tired of hearing guys buy the hf and then spending a lot of time and money to make it do what they want.
i agree with aj2,save your money and buy a real dust collector.

- pottz

Respect both of your rights to an opinion but as mentioned, it was nearly free to me and included a HEPA filter. Don’t have it in the budget to buy a better blower atm, but will eventually. Just making the best of what I have now. Any feedback on how to do that is greatly appreciated.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3765 posts in 2854 days


#7 posted 01-02-2021 05:43 AM

Well then you are correct keep your hose low and straight. Every bend or change of ducting size is going to affect the Cfm. I wouldn’t go bigger then 4 inch.
Dust collection is very important much more then having a fancy table saw or bandsaw. I run a 3hp cyclone with a 14 inch impeller.
Don’t skimp
Good Luck

-- Aj

View clagwell's profile

clagwell

367 posts in 848 days


#8 posted 01-02-2021 10:50 AM

Most of what you want to do will be fine. It has to be, you already have the ducting and the blower so you’re going to make it work.

Forget about using it for small tools, 2.5” or less. That won’t work. Use a shopvac for those.

Also, use a shopvac for the topside collection on your tablesaw with the DC sucking from the cabinet. Do not seal up the saw cabinet, it should have an intake area between one and two times the outlet (duct) area.

Stay away from the 4” SDD. It’s way too restrictive. If space and budget allow, the XL will give you the best flow at a small sacrifice in collection efficiency. The standard SDD will work but with more static pressure loss.

For either the SDD or the SSDDXL you need to modify the inlet on the blower. If it stays 5” you’ll take a contraction loss. Make it 6”.

With a cyclone you won’t need the original separator and removing it will more than make up for the added pressure drop of the cyclone. Replumb the blower outlet to feed the filter directly.

If your duct is 30g snaplock you’ll need to add reinforcing rings to the straight sections to keep it from collapsing.

Arrange your ducting so that, if necessary, you can open the bottom of the drops for cleaning without a lot of difficulty.

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

View Robert's profile

Robert

4523 posts in 2537 days


#9 posted 01-02-2021 11:16 AM

From what I’ve heard lots of people use the HF blower and it seems to be a good value. I’ve heard of people replacing the impeller (RIKON?)

Definitely go for it, I think the blower will work even with SDD. BTW it has a 5” inlet. If you want to save some bucks, build your own Thien separator.

IMO clagwell ^ is spot on re: about small tools/shop vac & 4” ducts.

Every DC system is different. Everyone has their own experience and opinions, but DC is one of those things you can fill your head with facts but the reality is you have to build it and give yourself an out to modify or expand.

In my case, it’s a SDD with 6” ducts and the “temporary” 1 1/2HP Jet blower I used while (unsuccessfully) searching for a 3HP blower is still there 3 yrs later and works.

But it’s not supposed to according to everything I know :-D

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6927 posts in 3549 days


#10 posted 01-02-2021 11:55 AM


.

Every DC system is different. Everyone has their own experience and opinions, but DC is one of those things you can fill your head with facts but the reality is you have to build it and give yourself an out to modify or expand.

- Robert

That’s almost always overlooked by everybody when it comes to DC. But to the OP, my concern with the 6” ducting would be clogs. I’m guessing you’ll choke that 6” down to 4” at the tool. That may not allow enough air speed (once it’s in the 6” duct) to effectively carry the chips. But try it out, it may be just fine. Even so, I think I would go with 4” duct with that blower (I’m not a HF enthusiast) which would likely have the velocity you’ll need. 4” PVC is really cheap and readily available.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View HackFabrication's profile

HackFabrication

221 posts in 768 days


#11 posted 01-02-2021 11:41 PM


Since this is a hobby shop I am not too keen on throwing large wads of cash at it just yet.
- nozborne

I’m running a HF DC (Craig’s List find) with Rikon impeller, Wynn filter, and a SDD:

If you can mount the impeller housing close to the SDD, you will increase the efficiency of the unit. I needed to keep everything mobile, and didn’t want to come up with an entirely new base design, so I opened up the impeller housing to 6”, and ran 6” steel ducting between the two.

I plumbed it all with 4” PVC (DVW) with 4 drops along one wall. I then expanded it to another wall and added a drop with floor sweep:

Optimal for the HF DC would be to run 5” main lines, reduced to 4” at the machines. But 5” DVW PVC is unobtaineum. Which left me with either 4” or 6” as the options. I read a few things, watched a few videos, and there are people running 6” piping with the HF DC. But another factor is the size of all that piping hanging from the walls, etc. And off the shelf blast gates, adapters, etc. are readily available in 4”. I reduced the 5” inlet fitting on the SDD with an adapter and it’s all connected with a short piece of flex hose.

Adding a remote for the DC, is a must, IMO:

I also run only one machine at a time. It is sort of a pain to open/close blast gates. Mainly because I work in a cramped basement shop. But it’s definitely worth it to have less dust everywhere. And my ‘system’ works very well. I guess it comes down to expectations. Mine was to eliminate/collect 90% or better of the large dust. Bear in mind, that most home machines are not designed with dust collection in mind.

You will be doing a bit of Hack Fabrication to get each tool tamed. I’ve got my table saw, radial arm saw, jointer, planer, and power miter saw ‘tamed’. I’m still working on the best solution for my bandsaw.

If, for any reason, you will eventually upgrade to a bigger dust collector, go with the 6” from the get-go.

-- "In the end, it's all Hack..."

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