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Forum topic by MrZ2u posted 12-16-2020 07:28 PM 535 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MrZ2u

19 posts in 2219 days


12-16-2020 07:28 PM

I am noodling on an idea for a typical single stage DC mod since I scored a free Delta 50-850 yesterday. I am planning on a Thien baffle type stage before the air mover and I have wire spool drums to use in place of the typical trash can. On the exhaust side I was thinking of just venting right through the wall of my shop to the outdoors.

Thinking is this would remove all the restriction of the dust bag and maybe negate some of the loss from the Thien stage…not to mention eliminate the dust potential back into the shop area.

Anyone vent outside? Did you find any additional flow as a result?


12 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6826 posts in 3500 days


#1 posted 12-16-2020 08:07 PM

Venting outside is a great way to handle DC, and if at all possible is what should be done. There are reasons not to do it though. You are correct that it will increase flow (no idea if it would overcome the Thein baffle reduction, but I suspect it would. It eliminates any dust escaping back into the work area, and you no longer have to clean the filter media. But…it sucks (maybe) conditioned air out of the room possibly costing a fair amount in lost heat or cooling. It also (again, maybe) creates a negative pressure in the room. So if you have combustion appliances, like a water heater) it may suck CO back into the room. There are some here who vent out, and they may chime in. I heat in the winter, so have avoided venting…though I would love to do so. On other thing: it may lessen the load on your DC motor so much it lets the magic smoke out, so measure the amperage after you’re set up and make sure you aren’t overloading the motor.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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ibewjon

2265 posts in 3800 days


#2 posted 12-16-2020 08:13 PM

I don’t understand the obsession with venting outside. I have the 2 micron jet filter on a 2 hp generic dc and have very minimal dust. I added a Wen air cleaner recently to collect any super fines floating around. I won’t vent outside because my mini split is properly sized for the space, and I would loose too much filled and heated sir. I don’t have combustion heat, but that is a definite concern with pulling CO into the shop, even from the house if attached.

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MrZ2u

19 posts in 2219 days


#3 posted 12-16-2020 08:20 PM


I don t understand the obsession with venting outside. I have the 2 micron jet filter on a 2 hp generic dc and have very minimal dust.

- ibewjon

Dust back into the room is the minimal reason, more of a bonus really. I want max suction and not to have to clean a dust filter.


it may lessen the load on your DC motor so much it lets the magic smoke out, so measure the amperage after you’re set up and make sure you aren’t overloading the motor.

- Fred Hargis

Its an AC motor in this case and I suspect it wouldn’t be an issue in general and don’t forget I will have an additional load with the extra stage. I do have two water heaters in a closet but this is a 2.5 car garage with 13ft ceilings so there is a lot to work with and I could crack the door too. I dont have any AC in it so the more air movement the better. Given that I live outside Austin, Texas, its rare that I would need to heat it and cant anyway.

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fivecodys

1723 posts in 2643 days


#4 posted 12-16-2020 10:19 PM

I vent my DC directly outside after running it the a Super Dust Deputy.
I work in an unheated or air conditioned garage so it’s no issues there. My garage shop is well ventilated by design. It has 3 vents. 2 close to the ground and one on the roof.

I vented outside solely to deal with the fine dust particles. I also use a WEN air filtration unit hung in the rafters.

I have not found any evidence of visible dust passing through the exhaust and depositing on the leaves of the bushes so I would say the SDD is doing a good job.

I originally used HVAC metal duct work but the darn thing sounded like a jet engine from the outside of the garage which happens to be right along the walk way to our front door of the house.

I found a suggestion on Bill Pentz’s website to use insulated flex pipe for the exhaust and now it sounds like a standard dryer vent running.

I have been very happy with this small DC system. There is a lot to all of this. I highly recommend checking out Bill Pentz’s website. There is a ton of good information there.

-- A bad day woodworking is still better than a good day working.

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Fred Hargis

6826 posts in 3500 days


#5 posted 12-16-2020 10:32 PM

it may lessen the load on your DC motor so much it lets the magic smoke out, so measure the amperage after you re set up and make sure you aren t overloading the motor.

- Fred Hargis

Its an AC motor in this case and I suspect it wouldn t be an issue in general and don t forget I will have an additional load with the extra stage. I do have two water heaters in a closet but this is a 2.5 car garage with 13ft ceilings so there is a lot to work with and I could crack the door too. I dont have any AC in it so the more air movement the better. Given that I live outside Austin, Texas, its rare that I would need to heat it and cant anyway.

- MrZ2u

When I said “DC Motor” I was referring to “dust collector motor”. Even with the Thein, it would be wise to check the amperage draw….but it’s your motor, if you feel good about you’re all set.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View ocean's profile

ocean

226 posts in 1840 days


#6 posted 12-17-2020 12:30 AM

I have a Thein baffle trash can type to the Harbor Freight collector thru to a Wynn filter 2 micron and a ceiling air filtration unit. While the table saw and router do made most dust, I do a lot hand sawing, carving, sanding I know that they produce a sizable amount of dust. It is evident by all the chips and dust on the floor that no matter the systems you have to collect chips and dust it is not enough to prevent air borne dust. I do ware a dust mask at all times when I am doing any wood working and I try to clean the shop of loose dust and chip on a regular basis. All of this is not enough. I don’t see that the arguments one way or another really makes a difference on vent the collector outside or not dose not relieve you of dust throughout your shop. It is the small hand work the your do that is the real problem. Keep wearing a mask if you what to protect your lungs!

-- Bob, FL Keys

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MrZ2u

19 posts in 2219 days


#7 posted 01-20-2021 08:44 PM

I ended up buying a canister filter but not from Wynn as everyone seems to do. I went with part number 35B222NANO from https://filterprofessor.com/ for a bit less all in…like $160 total. Anyway, here are a couple pics of my modification. This will do till I clear a couple of other projects and then I will go to work on the Thien baffle and probably redo all of this.

Marked and drilled holes for nut rivets to hold the bracket that will have a piece of 3/8-16 allthread

Base plate with 3/4 rabbit and rubber weather strip

Made a knob by sandwiching a T nut between two 3.5in dia 3/4 ply circles. Rough grips with the spindle sander didn’t turn out so great but this will do for now.

And the completed mod…

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4135 posts in 2501 days


#8 posted 01-21-2021 09:58 AM

FWIW: Here are some mods I made to my 50-850:
Click for details
I put a vertex cone separator inside the existing metal head, so don’t need separate floor space for another trash can.
YMMV

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View Robert's profile

Robert

4435 posts in 2487 days


#9 posted 01-21-2021 12:28 PM

There’s no obsession with it, it’s simply a more efficient system, offsets the negative effect of a cyclone, and eliminates the hassle of filter maintenance.

But not everyone can do it if there will be heat and/or AC loss.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Kudzupatch's profile

Kudzupatch

113 posts in 2215 days


#10 posted 01-21-2021 02:23 PM



There’s no obsession with it, it’s simply a more efficient system, ...

- Robert

AND, it is the small, unseen, microscopic(?) dust particles that damage lungs and cause health issues. Not what you see in the air and on the floor. From what I read you lower these a lot but dumping the air outside instead of recycling the air and of course, more air flow/speed

Small micron filter sounds great but we have no way to know if they really do filter as well as they claim. As one with allergy issues I would like to vent mine outside.

As for the issue of heated and cooled air, you can always put in valve so that you can switch from out side to inside. That is my paln once I move to my new shop.

-- Jeff Horton * Kudzu Craft skin boats* www.kudzucraft.com

View MrZ2u's profile

MrZ2u

19 posts in 2219 days


#11 posted 01-21-2021 04:00 PM



FWIW: Here are some mods I made to my 50-850:
Click for details
I put a vertex cone separator inside the existing metal head, so don t need separate floor space for another trash can.
YMMV

- CaptainKlutz

The way I am going to build it wont really change the footprint but by a few inches AND I just like to tinker so there is that :) It might end up a little taller than it is in these pics but given how much shorter the filter is vs the sock I think the net result will be about the same give or take a tiny bit. In either case, it will fall below my garage door rails which were the only concern from a space perspective.

On your pan mod…I was considering that but while I was working on the circles I was using the collector without the bag without thinking about it and it was sucking up chips just fine while not spitting out much dust at all…nothing I even noticed till I realized I was running it wide open. I did have a fan in the back of the garage pointing out, the unit was right at the opening and the garage door was open so I imagine that helped but still, surprised me how little was going up to the stack/sock.

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MrZ2u

19 posts in 2219 days


#12 posted 01-23-2021 04:51 AM



The way I am going to build it wont really change the footprint but by a few inches AND I just like to tinker so there is that :) It might end up a little taller than it is in these pics but given how much shorter the filter is vs the sock I think the net result will be about the same give or take a tiny bit. In either case, it will fall below my garage door rails which were the only concern from a space perspective.

On your pan mod…I was considering that but while I was working on the circles I was using the collector without the bag without thinking about it and it was sucking up chips just fine while not spitting out much dust at all…nothing I even noticed till I realized I was running it wide open. I did have a fan in the back of the garage pointing out, the unit was right at the opening and the garage door was open so I imagine that helped but still, surprised me how little was going up to the stack/sock.

- MrZ2u

...and I forgot to say that another reason I want to do the 2nd stage is to keep things from having to pass thru the impeller. This way I can use it to sweep the floor and not worry about the stray nuts/bolds/nails etc. I do metal work as well as wood so there is a pretty good chance that will be helpful!

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