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Laguna 18/47 Lathe - need advise

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Forum topic by Tim Scoville posted 12-14-2020 04:16 PM 837 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Tim Scoville

118 posts in 4387 days


12-14-2020 04:16 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question inverter 3-phase lathe

Update April 10, 2021.

The local repair shop declined to get into this when they realized how much study and effort would be required. So I took it back and decided, that unless I’m giving this lathe away, I will need to fix this myself, soooo, I did. It ran for the first time yesterday. It started as a Laguna, but now I refer to it as a hybrid I will call Lagrizz or Big Grey. It has a new Grizzly motor for their G0733 lathe. The VFD was a Delta M-series bought from Delta directly. Grizzly was VERY helpful and provided me their default parameters. Along the way, I got help from a couple of new friends who have traveled the road of having to replace VFDs for their lathes. I learned more than I wanted but just what I needed. The motor mounting plate (and belt tensioner) had to be adapted for the new motor attachment holes. The wiring diagrams between the Laguna and Grizzly were completely different but the controls were the same?

So now I look forward to actually using it. I have some other non-turning projects that are paused and need to be completed before I do much with Big Grey, but it will happen soon.

Thanks for listening. Hope to share some work results someday soon.

__

I bought a Laguna Platinum Series 18/47 lathe new in 2007/2008. After about 5 hours total use it stopped working after using it on a bowl in the lower RPM range. Within a couple years, Laguna had gone to their REVO line and mine wasn’t offered anymore. Laguna technicians tried to provide advise for troubleshooting by e-mail and with some digital pics, but often the pics didn’t represent what I was seeing, seemingly a different inverter. After some time, I gave up. I had a smaller Jet lathe to use and I had many other projects in the home to attack while this lathe collected dust. I moved to the Phoenix area upon retirement and took the lathe with me. I found someone to look at it who was skeptical about taking on a Laguna project because of past experience with their service department. He took it apart and found at least one fried component on the inverter circuit board. When I got back to Laguna with this info, I was told they no longer service this equipment but that the Grizzly model G0733 was the same model made in the same factory. I called Grizzly who were pretty helpful. I could get a new inverter for their machine that was NOT the same as the one I had. Theirs was a Delta. Mine appeared to be an ABB? The service guy I’m working through said it would need to be the same inverter model programmed for use with this lathe to work. Otherwise someone would need to program it to the Laguna specs. The same issue with trying to marry the Delta inverter to this machine.

Delta inverter part number VFD7A5MS21ANSAA

ABB? Inverter model MC1200-03-220UL, serial number W2008050036 (1500W, 220V)

I realize I’ve let too much time lapse to get this machine fixed. My bad. I have an e-mail to a distributor of ABB. Short of buying the G0733 to replace what I have, anyone have suggestions for getting this Laguna to run again? Thanks for any advise.

-- Tim S, AZ


11 replies so far

View lew's profile

lew

13332 posts in 4807 days


#1 posted 12-14-2020 04:26 PM

Sorry, Tim, I can’t offer any advice but I appreciate know about the poor results from Laguna. I was considering one of their lathes but glad I decided to go with a different brand.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2772 posts in 3041 days


#2 posted 12-14-2020 05:15 PM

Cant help you specifically, but you could try the AAW forum. I’ve seen similar questions with knowledgeable feedback. I’m positive the drive can be replaced with a newer version, different mfr, etc. Then becomes a question of parameter set up – easy if you know how, impossible if you dont. Do you have the manual and setup parameters for the original drive? That will be helpful for parameters for the replacement. I doubt fixing the original is an option, unless you find an independent service provider that knows that model type, and the repair cost could be substantial, but its worth searching the web to see.

You will have to do the leg work gathering info. If you arent willing to do so, sell it for a few hundred and move on.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8503 posts in 3250 days


#3 posted 12-14-2020 06:04 PM

I can’t find that ABB model, but I’m willing to bet that pretty much any VFD that is rated for your motor would work just fine. As for ‘programming’ it – I seem to remember someone else going through this a while back and getting the changes needed from the manufacturer… IIRC, it was pretty generic and minimal, and the major change was to tell the VFD to use remote controls instead of the ones built into the drive. Should be a simple fix.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Tim Scoville's profile

Tim Scoville

118 posts in 4387 days


#4 posted 12-14-2020 06:08 PM

Thanks Brad. I’ll look into it.

Tim

-- Tim S, AZ

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

6927 posts in 2439 days


#5 posted 12-14-2020 06:13 PM

I don’t know enough about VFDs to help with the parameters but I when I glanced at the manual for your lathe, page 19 lists several cautions about things you might do that will damage the electrical system, including using the speed controller to change the speed to zero or turning off the master power switch while it is running. It sounds like they may have made the mistake of setting the minimal speed parameter in their original VFD to zero—or it was just a crappy VFD to begin with. If you accidentally overshoot the off position and reverse the direction, it sounds like you could damage the motor too. Did you have the motor checked out?

If the motor is also a problem, I would look into getting a Nova DVR motor to upgrade the lathe. Or you might upgrade anyway and sell the old motor to recoup some of the costs? It’s a lot more expensive than just a VFD but if the motor is toast too, it might be cheaper than selling the lathe and buying a comparable one.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Tim Scoville's profile

Tim Scoville

118 posts in 4387 days


#6 posted 12-14-2020 07:28 PM

Nathan,

Can’t say for sure I didn’t violate these parameters. But I saw this too when trying to understand what may have gone wrong. I was definitely using the very low range due to the out-of-balance log I was working at the time. Just trying to get beyond and try to get this fixed or to move on to another option that provides me what I need rather than a continuing headache. I think the motor is OK. Do you know if the DVR has any built-in safeguards against what may have happened here?

Tim

-- Tim S, AZ

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Lazyman

6927 posts in 2439 days


#7 posted 12-15-2020 01:40 AM

Go look at the information about the DVR motors on the Teknatool website. It comes with a dedicated controller designed to optimize the motor performance so it should be able to protect itself from user error and it may even have a safety feature that detects a dangerously out of balance bank mounted on the lathe. I think that you can create presets to handle specific turning situations you do often. You will need to do some research to see if it can easily be mounted to your lathe and meet your needs but it is definitely worth a look. If you post a specific question about this, I know that there is at least one LJ that works for Teknatool or you may find someone how has done something similar to upgrade their lathe.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

#8 posted 12-17-2020 11:04 PM

My friend Billy Burt changed the inverter on his Powermatic. Different, yes, but he talks about setting the parameters because he did have to get a different inverter than original.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bETq-OLSC4g

-- Living In The Woods Of Beautiful Bonney Lake, Washington

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Tim Scoville

118 posts in 4387 days


#9 posted 01-05-2021 11:55 PM

An update for everyone who has chimed in…

After reading responses and doing my share of Youtube videos I decided to take the plunge and figure it out myself. Retrieved the head stock, motor, and attached VFD from the shop yesterday. Today I disassembled the VFD and removed it from the back of the head stock. Took plenty of picks for reference and detached all wires taking notes to better understand everything. I have ordered a Delta VFD that should be here in about two weeks. It is a different VFD than the original, but I seen so many of the Grizzly lathes with their Delta VFDs that there seems a lot less risk and mystery to it all.

Thanks for checking my post and for your inputs. I’ll let you know how it goes.

-- Tim S, AZ

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8652 posts in 4700 days


#10 posted 01-06-2021 12:11 AM

sound like a good plan. sometimes that language is more scary than that actual content it describes. “parameters” and “programming” could seem daunting, but all it is is really making sure the outputs from the VDF match the motor requirements. usually the motors will have the specs printed on them, so with a little searching online it’s pretty straight forward.

FWIW – I rewired a 3ph 240v causing lathe to run off of 120v single phase with a VDF. it isn’t rocket science, but you do need to do your homework and make sure you set it up right.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Tim Scoville's profile

Tim Scoville

118 posts in 4387 days


#11 posted 03-07-2021 10:47 PM

A bit of an update. Have had some other things going so progress has been slow. I admit that I have at times looked longingly at basic belt driven lathes that would have avoided these issues. But that isn’t reality.

I’ve ditched the original Laguna motor (it may still be functional but not with the Delta M-series VFD I bought) and I bought the Grizzly replacement motor. The VFD was off-the-shelf so was programmable. However, I errantly programmed one of the parameters that locked it up. So a friend on another woodworkers website is helping me unlock it my resetting parameters using the RS485 port. I can’t get the driver for the VFDSoft to work with my Windows 10, or I would do it myself. When I get my VFD back and reset the parameters, the hookups to the controls look simple enough. The other issue is the motor mounting plate/belt tensioner. Since the motor is different and bolt hole pattern is different diameter, I have mine at the machine shop to be adapted for use with my motor. I could have bought the Grizzly adapter plate but didn’t trust that wouldn’t also have to be adapted to fit the lathe. So went this way.

So, still not done but I’m feeling better about it. At the end I’ll have a LaGrizzly.

-- Tim S, AZ

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