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odd reaction - Titebond 2 and poplar

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Forum topic by LesD posted 12-11-2020 02:24 PM 1195 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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LesD

14 posts in 529 days


12-11-2020 02:24 PM

Topic tags/keywords: titebond 2 glue poplar discoloration glue stains

I am just curious if anyone has ever seen this or may have any idea what happened. I am working on a project using poplar (which I have used many times) and Titebond 2 (which I have also used many times). I took my panel glue ups out of the clamps last night and found something strange. The glue seems to have had some kind of weird chemical reaction with the tannins in the wood. There is a orange / pinkish discoloration extending about 3/16” beyond the actual glue to wood contact, not just exactly where the glue was. It clearly looks like a chemical reaction that has extended into the wood fibers. I was able to mill and sand enough to get rid of it (a LOT of milling and sanding). But, I don’t want this to happen on the rest of the project around all of my through tenons when I assemble it. Has anyone ever seen this? Any idea what caused it? Should I use a different glue? Would Titebond original be better? Maybe WeldBond (which I’ve never used)? This is a strictly indoor piece, so water resistance is not a concern, I was just using the Titebond 2 because I had it and I use it on pretty much everything.


20 replies so far

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

4446 posts in 3254 days


#1 posted 12-11-2020 02:41 PM

I have seen that too. My experience was with Alder it’s taught me to be conservative with Titebond bond 2 .
My gut tells me it was a bad mix in the bottle.
Good Luck

-- Aj

View BlueRidgeDog's profile

BlueRidgeDog

918 posts in 1235 days


#2 posted 12-11-2020 03:18 PM

I use #2 for longer assembly time on complex joins. So it is typically on areas that are not seen (tenons etc). Flat surface glue ups and things like drawers get regular titebond. #2 is a different animal and I don’t use it as a general purpose glue all, especially on blond or softer wood.

View LesD's profile

LesD

14 posts in 529 days


#3 posted 12-11-2020 04:10 PM


...My gut tells me it was a bad mix in the bottle.
Good Luck

- Aj2

The odd thing is that the glue is from a gallon jug that is about half empty and I haven’t seen this on other projects, even with Poplar.

View LesD's profile

LesD

14 posts in 529 days


#4 posted 12-11-2020 04:11 PM

Do you think I’d be less likely to have this issue with regular Titebond Original?
Or is there something else you would recommend?
I don’t want to risk dealing with this on the rest of this project.

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BlueRidgeDog

918 posts in 1235 days


#5 posted 12-11-2020 04:38 PM

I use gallons of regular Titebond. No issues. Lately I have been giving old brown hide glue a go for longer work times.

View M. Chippa's profile

M. Chippa

35 posts in 1207 days


#6 posted 12-11-2020 06:50 PM

Can confirm it happens with 3 also.

View LesB's profile

LesB

3466 posts in 4899 days


#7 posted 12-11-2020 06:55 PM

To avoid more problems with this project I would change glues. You could test a urethane glue (Gorilla glue) but be aware it needs moderate clamping because it tends to expand as it cures (good it works into wood grain) and squeeze out foams up and can be easily scraped off after it cures. Avoid squeeze out by using very thin coat on one side of the joint. Moistening one the other side of the glue joint speed up the curing process.

I use Titebond III for most everything so I don’t have to keep multiple types of it on hand. I do keep urethane glue and CA glue for things that need it.

-- Les B, Oregon

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LesD

14 posts in 529 days


#8 posted 12-11-2020 07:15 PM

I do have some urethane glue on hand. I just try to avoid it due to the foam out. But, if that will help avoid staining I’ll use it.
I may test on some scrap.
I guess I’ve just been lucky up until now, I use TB2 on everything and I’ve never seen this. Stains from where the glue actually was in contact with the wood, yes. But never this discoloration spreading away from the glue line.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

1546 posts in 2558 days


#9 posted 12-13-2020 03:05 AM

I have not had this experience. However, just a thought. You might try Elmer’s Glue All. It is a similar glue but is white and dries clear. Try it on some scrap and see what it does. Please let us know how it works.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2934 posts in 4249 days


#10 posted 12-13-2020 03:21 AM

Or Elmer’s carpenter glue. It is yellow.

View SMP's profile

SMP

5301 posts in 1361 days


#11 posted 12-13-2020 06:33 AM

Hmm, i use TB2 and poplar all the time and have never seen this. Maybe the poplar was sprayed with a chemical that is reacting?

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1819 posts in 3186 days


#12 posted 12-13-2020 01:19 PM


...My gut tells me it was a bad mix in the bottle.
Good Luck

- Aj2

The odd thing is that the glue is from a gallon jug that is about half empty and I haven t seen this on other projects, even with Poplar.

- LesD


When you get air into a half full gallon jug of TB glue, it starts breaking down. I’ve always found a thin layer of clear liquid on the surface in the jug. I started shaking the jug to mix it up. Lately, I’ve been transferring the glue from a gallon jug to 16 oz. glue bottles. Since then, no more liquid breakdown of my glue…................. Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View GlueNerd's profile

GlueNerd

4 posts in 1717 days


#13 posted 12-14-2020 02:21 PM

Hi LesD, Titebond II and other reactive (water-resistant) glues contain catalysts that help the glue achieve water-resistance as it dries at room temperatures. These catalysts react to release acetic acid from the PVA (polyvinyl acetate) glue. The acetic acid (same chemical in vinegar) can react with iron and other metals to form salts that have color. As an example, iron and acetic acid react to form a black salt (iron acetate which is actually a very dark purple). This can also be made by putting nails in vinegar. Other metals will create different colors. Copper will create green colored salts. Some woods naturally pick up metals from the soils they grow in (oak is notorious for picking up iron), in other cases, we have seen where sandpaper which has been used to grind metal has transferred the metal to sanded joints causing the discoloration. I have seen black, green and red (on a cherry wood sample) glue lines due to this phenomenon. If the issue is with the particular boards you are bonding, switching to polyurethane glue (Titebond Polyurethane Glue or Gorilla Glue) will eliminate the issue as it does not contain acetic acid. You can always call me to discuss further. Bob at Titebond 800-347-5483

View LesD's profile

LesD

14 posts in 529 days


#14 posted 12-14-2020 02:21 PM



Hmm, i use TB2 and poplar all the time and have never seen this. Maybe the poplar was sprayed with a chemical that is reacting?

- SMP

Same here. I had the same thought.

View LesD's profile

LesD

14 posts in 529 days


#15 posted 12-14-2020 02:24 PM



Hi LesD, Titebond II and other reactive (water-resistant) glues contain catalysts that help the glue achieve water-resistance as it dries at room temperatures. These catalysts react to release acetic acid from the PVA (polyvinyl acetate) glue. The acetic acid (same chemical in vinegar) can react with iron and other metals to form salts that have color. As an example, iron and acetic acid react to form a black salt (iron acetate which is actually a very dark purple). This can also be made by putting nails in vinegar. Other metals will create different colors. Copper will create green colored salts. Some woods naturally pick up metals from the soils they grow in (oak is notorious for picking up iron), in other cases, we have seen where sandpaper which has been used to grind metal has transferred the metal to sanded joints causing the discoloration. I have seen black, green and red (on a cherry wood sample) glue lines due to this phenomenon. If the issue is with the particular boards you are bonding, switching to polyurethane glue (Titebond Polyurethane Glue or Gorilla Glue) will eliminate the issue as it does not contain acetic acid. You can always call me to discuss further. Bob at Titebond 800-347-5483

- GlueNerd

I kind of figured it was something odd with this specific batch of wood. I continued along with the project. I used some polyurethane in some place and some quick and thick in some. No issues with either of these. Thanks for responding!

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