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Forum topic by jeff posted 11-25-2020 06:00 AM 661 views 2 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jeff

1284 posts in 4433 days


11-25-2020 06:00 AM

Topic tags/keywords: lathe tools

My BB bowl gouges are in need of replacement.It seems they are not holding an edge as long as they used to. I came across these bowl gauges now being offered by Robust http://www.turnrobust.com/product/turners-edge/
Does anyone have any experience with these?.Thanks.

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.


12 replies so far

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2932 posts in 3103 days


#1 posted 11-25-2020 12:15 PM

Have no experience with those tools. Tool prices okay, but handles pretty expensive. I would ask if could make my own handles.

Although you buy tool handles from him too can also make your own. Found it easy to make my own handles. My bowl gouges from him are outstanding!
Home – Thompson Tools (thompsonlathetools.com)

Product List – Thompson Tools (thompsonlathetools.com)

Would never buy anymore Henry Taylor KRYO steel tools again. Didn’t get wear resistance they claim.

-- Bill

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nixs

22 posts in 1380 days


#2 posted 11-25-2020 01:11 PM

When I bought my AB from Robust last year I purchased a 1/2 and 5/8 turners edge bowl gouges. They hold a edge as well as My Thompson gouges but I find that due to the extra length of the flute that I get more vibration, just my opinion. I’ll stay with Thompson on my future purchases.

-- Steve, SW Louisiana

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jeff

1284 posts in 4433 days


#3 posted 11-26-2020 04:19 AM

I have 3 tools from Thompson. I have a 1/2” V bowl gouge but I use the BB bowl gouges more.Not sure why?.The cuts seem cleaner to me with the BB. I made my handles for the Thompsons as well. I was also looking at D-Ways tools as well.Thanks for the responses.

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

883 posts in 2430 days


#4 posted 11-26-2020 04:52 AM

I too have no experience with the robust tools. Only there tool rest.
And I am also a big fan of Thompson tools. And I too have made my own handles.
I now have the Jimmy Clewes quick release, that I made my own handles for. But earlier tools have there own.
If you go with the Robust tools. Post an update here after you have used them awhile. Lets us know what you think of them .

-- John

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Wildwood

2932 posts in 3103 days


#5 posted 11-26-2020 03:39 PM

Have an old Henry Taylor “V” M2 HSS shaped bowl gouge about wore out & love it. Have not seen that HT “V” gouge sold in many years. Also have couple “U” M2 HSS HT & Sorby shape bowl gouges. My 5/8” Thomson bowl gouge is “U” shaped. My point here is use you Taylor “V” gouge, that old HT gouge came with 60 or 65 degree grind on it.

Will see where Doug puts a 60 degree grind on his V shape bowl gouge. Not sure cannot seem to link to video!

Sharpening Woodturning Tools – Doug Thompson – YouTube.com

Use the same wheels on my 6” HS grinder and had to touch up the edge on Thompson gouge my 80 grit wheel before using regular. My Wolverine System much older than Doug’s and came with better instructions back then. Use 2” stand off versus 1 ¾” per those instructions.

JMHO, thing carbon steel tools cut cleaner than M2 HSS and those exotic steels so popular today. Wear resistance and hardness pretty much lot to do with who is turning what (wood species), skill level and sharp tools.

-- Bill

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jeff

1284 posts in 4433 days


#6 posted 11-27-2020 02:30 AM

Thx Bill. I have watched Doug Thompson’s video on sharpening. Not sure why I’m more comfortable handling the BB tools ?. Could be my skill level. I have the Wolverine with cbn wheels so my tools are sharp.

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.

View OSU55's profile (online now)

OSU55

2711 posts in 2958 days


#7 posted 12-01-2020 05:42 PM

Havent tried Robust tools. An important point with bowl gouges is knowing the flute design you want – U, V, or eliptical. BB bowl gouges are elliptical. Not all mfr have all flutes. Not all flutes are suitable for all types of grinds. Ellsworth long wing 60 deg grind only works with an elliptical flute. 40/40 grind will work with ellip or V. Traditional grind will work with all flutes.

Thompson and other PM steels – I have read cbn wheels are needed to get the best performance from the pm. CBN cuts the carbides while alox can pull them out at the edge. I sharpen with alox. I have a Thompson and a Crown M42 razor bowl gouges, 5/8” shaft. Both elliptical, the Thompson is only available from Lyle Jamieson. They seem to hold and edge about the same, but I sharpen with alox on a grizzly wet sharpener. I have read where others using cbn get about equal edge life pm vs m42. The Crown Razor M42 are my current favorites – I have a couple other tools in addition to the gouge.

I make my own wooden handles for tools that need long handles, like big bowl gouges. I like to remove the tool for sharpening – just easier to handle. Using Cindy Drozda AL handle inserts with set screws, they work well. There are other handle inserts Hosaluk, Oneway, and others. Dont dismiss handled tools – I easily removed the handle from the Crown gouge to use my own. DIY handles can be bored out to slide the tool in deeper to help vibration.

View jeff's profile

jeff

1284 posts in 4433 days


#8 posted 12-01-2020 06:23 PM

OSU55,thanks for the response.
I’m not sure what flute design I prefer. I do tend to use my BB over my Thompson gouge and I like swept back wings on my gouges. The flute design’s on the BB and Thompsons are different from each other from what I can tell by eyeing them. What flute design do you think works best with swept back wings?. My gouges are ground to a 55-60 degree. I haven’t purchased any tools yet. I was looking at D-Way gouges as well. I wanted to try something different with a tool that holds an edge longer. Thompson’s do that but I’m not favorable to them as I am with the BB’s. Again could be my skill level ect.

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.

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TheDane

5913 posts in 4631 days


#9 posted 12-01-2020 09:03 PM

You can use ordinary brass plumbing fittings to make your own collets for tool handles. The advantage of using this type of collet is that there are no set screws to damage the shanks on your tool shafts.

I use these with Thompson Lathe Tools … unhandled tools from other toolmakers may work as well, I just have not tested them.

I found the parts needed in the plumbing department at a local farm & home supply. Some stores have similar fittings, but the ones I found are ‘lead free’ and have a different sleeve … I couldn’t make them work.

(For 5/8” tool shaft)
5/8” Compression x 1/2” FIP adapter
Pipe nipple: 1/2” x 1-1/2”

(For 1/2” tool shaft)
1/2” Compression x 3/8” FIP adapter
Pipe nipple: 3/8” x 1-1/2”

(For 3/8” tool shaft)
3/8” Compression x 1/4” FIP adapter
Pipe nipple: 1/4” x 1-1/2

Remove the nut and sleeve from the adapter and tighten the nipple to the adapter. Chuck it up on your lathe and turn the flats off the adapter (good use for a carbide tool). Use a skew to cut some grooves in the portion of the adapter you just turned down (to give the epoxy something to bond to).

Here are the parts for my 1/2” collet:

The parts should look like this (note: the sleeve has been slotted per the instructions below):

Bore a hole large enough to accept the nipple and adapter in the end of your handle about 1-1/2” deep. The hole should be as snug as you can make it.

Coat the inside of the hole and the adapter/nipple liberally with epoxy and seat in the hole. Let it dry overnight.

Note: You can make your epoxy go further by mixing in some ‘epoxy filler’. I use West Systems 404, a high-density epoxy thickening additive developed for maximum physical adhesive properties in hardware where maximum strength is necessary. Any dealer that carries West System epoxy products should be able to get it.

Install the copper or brass tube you will use for a ferrule on the tool handle and epoxy it in place

The adapters have a small shoulder inside … once the epoxy is cured, you’ll need to bore that out (I leave a tenon on the butt end of the tool handle so it can be remounted on the lathe). Drill deep enough so the tool shank doesn’t bottom out. You may also need to enlarge the hole a bit to accommodate the tool shaft …the steel used in Thompson’s tools is actually .015 oversize and the shank that fits into the collet is machined so a common drill bit (3/8”, 1/2”, or 5/8”) can be used to bore out the collet. I used a dowel with a slot cut in it and some coarse grit sandpaper to allow a couple of thousandths clearance for the tool shank.

Use a Dremel, Fordham, or other tool to cut a slot all the way through one side of the compression sleeve. This allows the sleeve to compress around the tool shaft when you tighten the nut, but release it when you loosen the nut.

Put the slotted compression sleeve in the adapter, screw on the nut and insert the tool shaft. If it doesn’t fit, use the dowel and sandpaper to slightly enlarge the hole. You want a snug fit.

When the tool shaft goes in all of the way to the shoulder on the shaft, use an adjustable wrench to tighten the nut and get busy!

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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jeff

1284 posts in 4433 days


#10 posted 12-02-2020 02:28 AM

Gerry thanks for the tutorial on making collets. I will try this someday.

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.

View OSU55's profile (online now)

OSU55

2711 posts in 2958 days


#11 posted 12-03-2020 09:04 PM



OSU55,thanks for the response.
I m not sure what flute design I prefer. I do tend to use my BB over my Thompson gouge and I like swept back wings on my gouges. The flute design s on the BB and Thompsons are different from each other from what I can tell by eyeing them. What flute design do you think works best with swept back wings?. My gouges are ground to a 55-60 degree. I haven t purchased any tools yet. I was looking at D-Way gouges as well. I wanted to try something different with a tool that holds an edge longer. Thompson s do that but I m not favorable to them as I am with the BB s. Again could be my skill level ect.

- jeff

Doug Thompson only has U or V flute bowl gouges available on his site. Lyle Jamieson asked Doug to make an elliptical for him in 5/8”. Lyle sells them on his site. So, yes the BB flute will look a lot different than a V or U. My BB flutes look just like the Jamieson/Thompson flute. There are 2 styles of swept back wings, one where the line from the top to the bottom is straight/flat, the other has a convex curve. The curved one is Ellsworth’s signature grind. It can be anywhere between the 2, just not concave. I like a bit of curve for shear scraping and to do Ellsworth’s “suicide cut” withe the left nose on the bowl ID. In either case an elliptical flute is best.

For ferrules/tool holders I like cheap and simple. Fir removable tools I like the set screw type, Cindy Drozda sells aluminum and Hasoluk has steel, AL has worked for me – about $20 each. For permanent handles I use copper pipe. For the tool holders above, use a ferrule – I had one break out. Big enough pipe was expensive so I did a string/thread ferrule.

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jeff

1284 posts in 4433 days


#12 posted 12-04-2020 08:21 AM

OSU thanks for the info.

-- Jeff,Tucson,Az.

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