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Need help with Hinges for custom built cabinet

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Forum topic by PresidentsDad posted 10-22-2020 02:27 AM 862 views 0 times favorited 33 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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PresidentsDad

140 posts in 1159 days


10-22-2020 02:27 AM

Hey all, I built my first cabinet with a face frame using the Sommerfeld Tools Cabinet Making set. The main principle is to use his router bit set to cut a groove into the back of the face frames and a slot in the side and divider pieces to be able to easily build a custom set of cabinets. I built an 88” long custom bathroom double vanity. It has essentially three sections in the single cabinet. Section 1 (the left side) is for a sink and will have a false drawer where the sink is and two doors underneath. Section 2 (the middle) has two half width drawers and will have two doors underneath. Section 3 (the right side) is basically identical to section 1. Section 1’s doors will need face frame hinges, no big deal. Section two, since the dividers are flush with the edge of the face frame will need frameless hinges. Section 3, because I made the right hand side of this section with a flush to the inside of the face frame side (for a scribe area) will need a face frame hinge on the left side and a frameless hinge on the right side.

Now the question: I had planned to make all of the doors, drawers and false fronts with 1/2” overlay on all sides. For the face frame hinges this is no big deal. But…for the frameless hinges they are offered in 1/2 overlay and full overlay. Which I’m guessing translates to basically 3/8” overlay and 3/4” overlay. In order to match the three sets of doors (one set with face frame hinges, one set with frameless and one set with face frame on the left and frameless on the right)...should I go with the 1/2 overlay frameless hinges? (No idea why these pix come in rotated, but the bottom of the pic is the left side (or section 1).)


33 replies so far

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therealSteveN

6619 posts in 1485 days


#1 posted 10-22-2020 04:09 AM

The “Euro” hinges are probably the easiest, most adjustable hinges to use for cabinets. I don’t know of any that don’t work on anything but a 35mm hinge hole, always in the door frame. Beyond that the world is your oyster with offerings of inset, partial, or full overlay, and then you can get a 90 degree door opening, up to beyond 110 degrees.

I’ve found lately the best deals, and also some of the best help at Woodworkers Hardware.

https://www.wwhardware.com

Here is a page with more info about the hinges. If ever in doubt, give em a call.

https://www.wwhardware.com/concealed-hinge-buying-guide

For your question, I’d just go with 1/2” overlay on all of them.

The pic turned I am told has to so with the setting on your camera between landscape, and portrait. I don’t have this issue , and my camera is set for portrait. You might check yours to see what it is. Either way the pics can be checked for orientation before posting by clicking the “preview” button above the box you are typing into.

-- Think safe, be safe

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PresidentsDad

140 posts in 1159 days


#2 posted 10-22-2020 04:49 AM



The “Euro” hinges are probably the easiest, most adjustable hinges to use for cabinets. I don t know of any that don t work on anything but a 35mm hinge hole, always in the door frame. Beyond that the world is your oyster with offerings of inset, partial, or full overlay, and then you can get a 90 degree door opening, up to beyond 110 degrees.

I ve found lately the best deals, and also some of the best help at Woodworkers Hardware.

https://www.wwhardware.com

Here is a page with more info about the hinges. If ever in doubt, give em a call.

https://www.wwhardware.com/concealed-hinge-buying-guide

For your question, I d just go with 1/2” overlay on all of them.

The pic turned I am told has to so with the setting on your camera between landscape, and portrait. I don t have this issue , and my camera is set for portrait. You might check yours to see what it is. Either way the pics can be checked for orientation before posting by clicking the “preview” button above the box you are typing into.

- therealSteveN


On my computer and my phone these pix are correct side up, so not sure what’s up when it uploads. I did check it on the preview, which was why the text about the orientation in the OP.

The frameless come in “half” overlay and (full) overlay. According to the guys at Rockler, that is basically 3/8” for the half overlay and 3/4” for the full overlay. My question is which would look better with the 1/2” overlay from the face frame hinges? I’m thinking the half overlay as it would only be about 1/8” “off.”

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therealSteveN

6619 posts in 1485 days


#3 posted 10-22-2020 05:03 AM

If you have 3/4” stock (plywood) where you are on the non face frame, using a 3/4” overlay may interfere with the use of the door next to it being able to open. IOW, the non’s door would be right up against the back side of the FF unit, and bare minimum would crowd the door, or possibly keep it from opening.

Once I start using one look, I stay with it all the way across, but with some FF, and one not I’m not sure if that is valid. I think if I were making that I would have set a spacer/filler in next to the non face frame unit, so spacing was more consistent.

-- Think safe, be safe

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Rich

6141 posts in 1501 days


#4 posted 10-22-2020 05:11 AM


The frameless come in “half” overlay and (full) overlay. According to the guys at Rockler, that is basically 3/8” for the half overlay and 3/4” for the full overlay. My question is which would look better with the 1/2” overlay from the face frame hinges? I m thinking the half overlay as it would only be about 1/8” “off.”

- PresidentsDad

Forgive those with poor reading comprehension.

If I understand correctly, you want to have a 1/2” overlay on a frameless cabinet but your choices are 1/2 and full overlay, which you correctly surmise is around 3/8” or 3/4”.

There are a few ways of dealing with it. One feature of the hinge is that you can adjust it +/- 2mm or so in the horizontal direction right at the hinge. You can also change the distance from the hinge cup to the edge when you drill it—but only up to a point. Finally, you can use shims on the hinge adapter plate inside the cabinet.

If it were me, I’d go with a full overlay and use the hinge adjustment combined with either a change to the hinge cup location or shimming the adapter plate. Probably the safest move is to shim the adapter plate 1/8”. That way you still retain the full +/- 2mm adjustment at the hinge to get your reveals nice and straight.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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therealSteveN

6619 posts in 1485 days


#5 posted 10-22-2020 05:11 AM

As I wrote above I got to looking at the pic a lot closer. Please post close up shots of the center most cabinet, and BOTH of it’s side walls. I can’t be sure from the pic you already posted because it was a little too far away for me to eeek out any enlargement, but I think you may be looking at a pending disaster. My mind was thinking you had 3 separate cabinets tied together, but it looks like you are sharing side walls.

If so I have never tried to do that, but my mind is having a hard time figuring where to go with it.

-- Think safe, be safe

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Rich

6141 posts in 1501 days


#6 posted 10-22-2020 05:17 AM


If so I have never tried to do that, but my mind is having a hard time figuring where to go with it.

- therealSteveN

Why am I not surprised?

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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Robert

4129 posts in 2392 days


#7 posted 10-22-2020 10:51 AM

Can’t advise on hinges, but future reference centering the the two dividers on the face frame you wouldn’t have the issue.

Ply flush with ff is usually only for drawer units, have you thought about just converting them to drawers?

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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therealSteveN

6619 posts in 1485 days


#8 posted 10-22-2020 05:03 PM


If so I have never tried to do that, but my mind is having a hard time figuring where to go with it.

- therealSteveN

Why am I not surprised?

- Rich

So you are a master at making cabinets without side walls? Or a common face frame that is wide enough for 2 sets of doors? Of course you never quote a complete sentence, or thought. Maybe you should change your name to “out of context Rich” you would find plenty of work making political adverts.

-- Think safe, be safe

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PresidentsDad

140 posts in 1159 days


#9 posted 10-22-2020 05:10 PM

The cabinet is built. Not changing that. So….if it’s not too much trouble, if y’all could keep the comments on topic to the question I asked please. :)

They are indeed shared walls. The middle set (if you read the OP) has the dividers flush with the faceframe so I could do drawers up top, but I didn’t want to do drawers down below, so that is why I have the question. Also, the right most part, I made a last minute decision to make one side flush for scribe purposes, so that is why there is one faceframe and one essentially frameless area. The question is what will be as close to possible for matching both sides? A half overlay (essentially 3/8” overlay) frameless hinge or a full overlay frameless hinge (essentially a 3/4” overlay).

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Loren

10782 posts in 4559 days


#10 posted 10-22-2020 05:13 PM

You should be able to fudge the drilling on the hinges to get them all at 7/16” or 3/8” overlay. Maybe 1/2”. Buy some and make some tests in scrap to see if they’ll clear properly. I’ve done this before but I don’t remember exactly how much fudging I got away with. Normally for frameless cabinets the edge of the cup hinge is about 1/4” from the door edge but you can move it one way or the other to get different overlays. Frameless hinge mounts offer some degree of lateral adjustment as well, which adjusts the overlay. Some FF cup hinge designs don’t and some do. You can do it with drilling if you’re using the type that don’t.

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PresidentsDad

140 posts in 1159 days


#11 posted 10-22-2020 05:17 PM



You should be able to fudge the drilling on the hinges to get them all at 7/16” or 3/8” overlay. Maybe 1/2”. Buy some and make some tests in scrap to see if they ll clear properly. I ve done this before but I don t remember exactly how much fudging I got away with. Normally for frameless cabinets the edge of the cup hinge is about 1/4” from the door edge but you can move it one way or the other to get different overlays. Frameless hinge mounts offer some degree of lateral adjustment as well, which adjusts the overlay. Some FF cup hinge designs don t and some do. You can do it with drilling if you re using the type that don t.

- Loren


Do you think I could maybe chisel out just a bit of the divider to allow for the face frame hinge?

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Loren

10782 posts in 4559 days


#12 posted 10-22-2020 05:29 PM

I don’t see why not.

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Rich

6141 posts in 1501 days


#13 posted 10-22-2020 06:01 PM

Perhaps “shimming the adapter plates” wasn’t clear. If you take a full overlay hinge set (3/4”) and put a 1/4” plate between the adapter plate and the inside wall of the cabinet, you will effectively move the door over 1/4”. 3/4” minus 1/4” will give you the 1/2” overlay you are looking for. No fudging needed.

P.S. I mistakenly said to shim it 1/8” earlier. That was incorrect.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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PresidentsDad

140 posts in 1159 days


#14 posted 10-22-2020 06:09 PM



Perhaps “shimming the adapter plates” wasn t clear. If you take a full overlay hinge set (3/4”) and put a 1/4” plate between the adapter plate and the inside wall of the cabinet, you will effectively move the door over 1/4”. 3/4” minus 1/4” will give you the 1/2” overlay you are looking for. No fudging needed.

P.S. I mistakenly said to shim it 1/8” earlier. That was incorrect.

- Rich


That makes sense. I assume these are sold along side the hinges at places like Rockler?

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Rich

6141 posts in 1501 days


#15 posted 10-22-2020 06:30 PM


That makes sense. I assume these are sold along side the hinges at places like Rockler?

- PresidentsDad

I doubt you’ll find them hanging from the hook at Rockler. Any 1/4” thick piece would do. A block of wood, plywood, anything that will space the hinge adapter 1/4” away from the cabinet wall. Even though it’s inside a cabinet, you probably want it to look as nice as possible, so using a piece of the same stock you built the frame from and planing it down to 1/4” would look best.

The problem with trying to move it by changing the cup position is that you’re generally looking at around 6mm between the cup and the edge of the door. To get a 1/4” shift would require moving the cup to the very edge of the door. You might get away with it, but it’s not the best choice.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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