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Forum topic by ohtimberwolf posted 10-16-2020 02:13 PM 662 views 1 time favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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ohtimberwolf

1042 posts in 3268 days


10-16-2020 02:13 PM

Topic tags/keywords: de-waxed shellac

I want to top coat with water based poly because I will be in my basement garage finishing. larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.


20 replies so far

View Axis39's profile

Axis39

376 posts in 513 days


#1 posted 10-16-2020 02:44 PM

They look like the same product with a slightly different label to me….

But, if you’re really worried, contact Zinsser/Rustoleum and ask for the SDS.

-- John F. SoCal transplant, chewer uppper of good wood

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5891 posts in 3267 days


#2 posted 10-16-2020 02:45 PM

They are both the same product with different labels. They are shellac and you could add alcohol based dye for color.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Rich's profile

Rich

6154 posts in 1505 days


#3 posted 10-16-2020 02:52 PM

Yes, those are the same product. They updated the label. Regarding the SDS, there’s no reason to contact them and ask for it, you can download it yourself. In fact, the SDS for pretty much any finishing product can be found online. Just do a search for the product plus “SDS.” For the Seal Coat, I searched “zinsser seal coat sds” and it came right up.

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/854.pdf

The section of interest is Section 3.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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Sark

352 posts in 1276 days


#4 posted 10-16-2020 02:58 PM

Look the same to me. You can read the ingredients on the labels. TransTint dyes are compatible with shellac, so you could add a few drops of the dye to the sealer to warm up the tone. They make an amber. Love TT dyes, but they are very concentrated. And pretty expensive, so generally one doesn’t want to spend the money to try out a bunch of different color samples.

So any alcohol compatible dye should work.

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ohtimberwolf

1042 posts in 3268 days


#5 posted 10-16-2020 05:39 PM

Thanks to all of you and especially for the links to make it easier. I’ll check it out and I didn’t know anything about SDS. I went to Sherwin Williams store and didn’t learn a thing. larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6571 posts in 3409 days


#6 posted 10-16-2020 06:00 PM



I went to Sherwin Williams store and didn t learn a thing. larry

- ohtimberwolf

Don’t feel bad, no one else does either…. they’re (SW) pretty much in the dark.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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ohtimberwolf

1042 posts in 3268 days


#7 posted 10-22-2020 11:57 PM

Well, I went to the company and this is what they told me to do. First though, there is no difference, same product.

I can use the Amber shellac to get the shade that want and then put Bulls Eye seal coat over the Amber which makes it compatible wth the polyuethane coating. Thanks for all the help from you guys and now maybe I can get to applying some finish before long. I may have to dampen and pre-sand the plywood before doing that.

larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

3161 posts in 3088 days


#8 posted 10-23-2020 02:49 PM

If you are using the amber shellac you don’t need the sealcoat. The only difference aside from color which is a natural tint in the shellac is the dilution of the shellac in the alcohol, The sealcoat is a 1 lb cut and the amber is 2lb cut. They are both compatible with the polyurethane coating.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6571 posts in 3409 days


#9 posted 10-23-2020 04:42 PM

Bruce, I think the Seal Coat is de-waxed and the amber is not, hence the reco he got. Seems to me that Seal Coat is a 2# cut as well, but it’s been awhile since I checked.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2139 posts in 3709 days


#10 posted 10-23-2020 04:47 PM

The poly should peel nicely from the amber shellac containing wax. Especially the water based poly. That is the reason for de waxed.

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

4085 posts in 3264 days


#11 posted 10-23-2020 05:27 PM

I would be very hesitant to use regular shellac (with wax) under poly. As mentioned above the Seal Coat doesn’t have wax so it can be used under poly. IMO water based poly would be a disaster. Check into adding an alcohol based stain to the Seal Coat as mentioned by Sark. Otherwise, consider staining the wood then apply an oil based poly after it dries completely. Another option is General Finshes Arm-R-Seal which gives an nice warm amber tint to the wood.

What are you trying to accomplish (stain), and on what species of wood?

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

1042 posts in 3268 days


#12 posted 10-24-2020 07:12 PM

I have a late 50’s finish (probably deft) that I can get very close to the color of the rest of the woodwork by using amber shellac. The problem posed to me using it was that it contains wax and will not be compatible with water based poly. (I’m working in my basement and it is winter time.) The SealCoat is de-waxed and makes it possible to then use water based poly according to the manufacturer. I was trying to prevent problems later on by making certain that I did not use incompatible finishes.

It seems there is quite a difference of opinion amongst some very respected fellows. It was that which started me investigating the controversy. I think I had better go with the advice of the manufacturer (I have their advice in email form for future needs should they arise) and appreciate all of you who have responded.
Take care and stay safe! larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1135 posts in 1094 days


#13 posted 10-24-2020 08:19 PM

I would get rid of both shellac and WB poly.

Use a solvent based product-brushing lacquer, polyurethane, Arm a seal, etc.

As long as your not spraying and have decent air flow, your fine.

There is all sorts of ways to get amber tones.

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

1042 posts in 3268 days


#14 posted 10-24-2020 08:33 PM

CW: Please give me the specific products that you would use to get what I have described. I could follow that but beng the novice that I am on current finishes I would not know where to start.

I appreciate you taking the time to inform me about what your opinion is and I would like to get on with my kitchen but can’t move on without knowing what exactly what to use in steps for my finish. I don’t want decade lungs. larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View Rich's profile

Rich

6154 posts in 1505 days


#15 posted 10-24-2020 11:13 PM

For starters, shellac is a solvent-based finish—the solvent is alcohol. There are two main classes of finishes; evaporative and reactive. Evaporative finishes include shellac and lacquer. Those in the reactive class include most oils, including polyurethane. Some are a combination of evaporative and reactive like catalyzed lacquer. Waterborne poly is something of an anomaly in my opinion. I hate the stuff. While I’m not a fan of WB poly, it certainly will provide a durable and attractive finish and I’m not discouraging its use.

Since you got the advice to use amber shellac topped with Seal Coat straight from the horses mouth, and it’s advice that will work, I wouldn’t hesitate to follow it. Another option would be to use straight Seal Coat and add a few drops of TransTint dye to effect the amber hue.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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