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Forum topic by maguru posted 10-08-2020 06:41 PM 657 views 0 times favorited 26 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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maguru

19 posts in 303 days


10-08-2020 06:41 PM

I want to make custom designed 4×8 panels as I see a business oportunity with a local Architecture/Design studio. In my country we don’t have many variety in panels and materials so I was thinking that I could introduce them some custom panels for their wood based design works.

I haven’t found what machines are used in glueing up large panels in the industry, mostly because I lack vocabulary (I’m from south america) and there isn’t much available in spanish to be honest.

Anybody has an idea of what terms should I be searching for?

Greatly appreciated

-- Always learning


26 replies so far

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3499 posts in 2715 days


#1 posted 10-08-2020 07:46 PM

4 ft x 8 ft would be a sheet of plywood.
Try looking up plywood machines or machinery.

-- Aj

View Loren's profile

Loren

10788 posts in 4565 days


#2 posted 10-08-2020 07:58 PM

You want to veneer cores or make the cores yourself?

Veneering, laminating cores is way easier and less expensive than making cores I think, which uses hug machines.

For veneering multiple sheets at one time presses that exert many tons of force are used.

View wildwoodbybrianjohns's profile

wildwoodbybrianjohns

2220 posts in 464 days


#3 posted 10-08-2020 08:17 PM

I think I would approach it this way:

Like AJ2 suggested, using plywood.

You might use chapa de madera to cover the plywood (contrachapado de madera), if you want specialized colours or woods, but you would need a very big press for this.

Contrachapado de abedul is baltic birch plywood. You should be able to get this in S.A.

Contrachapado marino is much higher quality. You could probably order or buy this anywhere there is a boats/yachts industry.

Hope that helps.

Donde vives?

-- Wildwood by Brian Johns: The Big Bang: Nothing - exploded into Everything. Thanks to Nothing.

View DS's profile

DS

3590 posts in 3337 days


#4 posted 10-08-2020 08:49 PM

Sounds like you’re looking for a hot press.

This is not mass production, but will make panels.
Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.

Not cheap either.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View maguru's profile

maguru

19 posts in 303 days


#5 posted 10-08-2020 09:04 PM


You want to veneer cores or make the cores yourself?

Veneering, laminating cores is way easier and less expensive than making cores I think, which uses hug machines.

For veneering multiple sheets at one time presses that exert many tons of force are used.

- Loren


I wasn’t aware of the type of forces necessary to make a panel. I should have explained better: what I’m trying to do are glued panels like the one in the attached picture. There are only Eucaliptus or Pine here, sold as “finger joint panel”. I don’t know what glue they use or what machines they use, but they are produced here. (I’m sure that with industrial machinery).

What I want to do is to provide panels of that size but in different woods and layouts. I have made some tests on my shop and made a steel frame to glue up panels, but that size all at once is just not possible. (not to mention the butt joints which I failed big time)


I think I would approach it this way:

Like AJ2 suggested, using plywood.

You might use chapa de madera to cover the plywood (contrachapado de madera), if you want specialized colours or woods, but you would need a very big press for this.

Contrachapado de abedul is baltic birch plywood. You should be able to get this in S.A.

Contrachapado marino is much higher quality. You could probably order or buy this anywhere there is a boats/yachts industry.

Hope that helps.

Donde vives?

- wildwoodbybrianjohns

I live in Uruguay. You are absolutely right, we can get birch plywood (although, not as high quality as the ones I see on American DIY videos). I’ve never seen marine birch here and I buy straight from a wood importer. I should ask.

I was just wondering if it was possible. I have access to industrial engineers that can help me out building a machine if it’s not incredibly complicated. I’ll look into panel presses, that’s a start.

Thanks everybody, I know this type of questions are a PITA lol

-- Always learning

View maguru's profile

maguru

19 posts in 303 days


#6 posted 10-08-2020 09:08 PM



Sounds like you’re looking for a hot press.

This is not mass production, but will make panels.
Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.

Not cheap either.

- DS

Wow, nice! Thanks for that info. Yeah I wasn’t expecting cheap, but now I’ll start digging in that direction. Thank you!

-- Always learning

View Loren's profile

Loren

10788 posts in 4565 days


#7 posted 10-08-2020 09:23 PM

You’d want a finger jointing machine. Then you have to glue them up. You can get glue applicators for finger joints. You’d probably want to use a wood welder to reduce time in the clamps when you edge glue the finger jointed boards together.

Cutting out defects can also be automated. I saw a machine that used a tiger stop pusher to do that using something like an electric eye to spot the defects and an upcut saw to cut the boards.

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maguru

19 posts in 303 days


#8 posted 10-08-2020 09:33 PM



You d want a finger jointing machine. Then you have to glue them up. You can get glue applicators for finger joints. You d probably want to use a wood welder to reduce time in the clamps when you edge glue the finger jointed boards together.

Cutting out defects can also be automated. I saw a machine that used a tiger stop pusher to do that using something like an electric eye to spot the defects and an upcut saw to cut the boards.

- Loren


That’s amazing. Thanks for the information!

-- Always learning

View DS's profile

DS

3590 posts in 3337 days


#9 posted 10-08-2020 09:45 PM

Sounds like you’re looking for a hot press.

This is not mass production, but will make panels.
Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.

Not cheap either.

- DS

Wow, nice! Thanks for that info. Yeah I wasn t expecting cheap, but now I ll start digging in that direction. Thank you!

- maguru


The hot press would be for making custom plywood.

Your pic is showing what is called butcher block panels and is a completely different animal.

Gang ripping, finger-jointing, large scale edge gluing and clamping, large wide-belt surfacing.
These can all be expensive operations also – Much more than just one machine.

You could easily spend $300k to $500k USD to set up an decent operation to make it at scale.
It would be profitable if you have the sales and decent supply-chain to support it.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View wildwoodbybrianjohns's profile

wildwoodbybrianjohns

2220 posts in 464 days


#10 posted 10-08-2020 10:25 PM

Basically, you are wanting to make fancy cutting boards just alot bigger.

To fabricate boards like those you showed, the operation is probably totally automated nowadays.

Investment in machines is one thing, I know Uruguay had very good social benefits programs, like maybe money for new business start-ups, but thats been changing alot and maybe not so good anymore? But sourcing wood so you can actually make a profit at this is quite another thing.

-- Wildwood by Brian Johns: The Big Bang: Nothing - exploded into Everything. Thanks to Nothing.

View maguru's profile

maguru

19 posts in 303 days


#11 posted 10-08-2020 10:35 PM



Basically, you are wanting to make fancy cutting boards just alot bigger.

To fabricate boards like those you showed, the operation is probably totally automated nowadays.

Investment in machines is one thing, I know Uruguay has very good social benefits programs, like maybe money for new business start-ups. But sourcing wood so you can actually make a profit at this is quite another thing.

- wildwoodbybrianjohns


Yeah you’re right, they’re big cutting boards pretty much, I was just wondering what it would take to do it.
It’s actually incredibly hard to start a business here, taxes and prices are very high, market is tiny and services are low quality. I’m using up my last savings on my current business, but it’s not looking too good. I have friends who moved to Europe and they all tell me that I should be doing what I do here, but over there and live 10 times better.

But that’s a different story.


Sounds like you’re looking for a hot press.

This is not mass production, but will make panels.
Cost $31k USD plus shipping and install.

Not cheap either.

- DS

I’m closer to something like this lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSNbcDiYTQ

I could make that no problem, some hydraulics and automation. And a more safety features deffinitely. Interesting.

Thanks for all the answers, I really do appreciate it very much.

-- Always learning

View SMP's profile

SMP

2878 posts in 822 days


#12 posted 10-09-2020 12:23 AM

Sounds like you want to make “butcher blocks” or “butcher block countertops”. The funny thing is the cheapest ones at my local shop are shipped over from South America.

View maguru's profile

maguru

19 posts in 303 days


#13 posted 10-09-2020 01:41 AM



Sounds like you want to make “butcher blocks” or “butcher block countertops”. The funny thing is the cheapest ones at my local shop are shipped over from South America.

- SMP

Really? Probably Brazil I guess. No, I want to build custom panels in sheet format. They’re using those fingerboard panels a lot in interior design, but everything looks the same. I was talking to a client who owns an Architecture Studio that also do interior design and I see I could have a potential business if I could create customized sheets for them.

I made countertops, solid doors, stairs steps and that type of thing. But I can handle that size.

-- Always learning

View SMP's profile

SMP

2878 posts in 822 days


#14 posted 10-09-2020 04:16 AM

Hmm for some reason they don’t have the panels I am talking about on their site but they also carry the Baubuche panels from Pollmeier. I think made in Germany? Another kind of trendy panel right now.
https://www.bennettcrone.com/baubuche

View CaptainKlutz's profile (online now)

CaptainKlutz

3835 posts in 2411 days


#15 posted 10-09-2020 07:44 AM

+10 Heated press

IME – Standard method to mfg cutting boards in a country with low cost labor is 2-4 sided hydraulic press with heated platen and fast cure PVA glue. Highest volume mfg that can afford more capital with cheap energy costs use microwave energy, focused through fiberglass press plates to excite the moisture/solvent in glue for fastest local heating, and cure times.

Here is a random example pic of process on press machine in China:

Some of newest automated laminated board assembly lines use PUR hot melt adhesives, with only folks loading lumber at one end, couple of quality inspectors in middle checking before press, and folks unloading stacks of panels at end for packaging, or down sizing into smaller product sizes. Even waste management is automated.

+1 DS cost estimate.
Press is least of your cost issues. There is a lot more than press cost when creating a consistent low cost process.

Have seen the cost for tooling on a press machine to be same/higher than cost for press, as making things flat across large area, minimizing glue line width, and making it non-stick is expensive.

After heated press cycle; the panels load into cooling racks (glue joints shrink as they cool), before wide belt sanding, and final double sided edge trim machine, and cut off saw.

Even in a small shop with one press, mfg usually have 2 work stations on conveyor in front of press, where folks pull lumber from pallet stacks, verify grain direction, and work to assemble a good looking defect free panel. One person can not feed a large microwave PUR hot melt glue press machine fast enough to keep it busy.

Most platen presses are same at core of machine. Used all over the wood mfg business. Same machines are used to make composite skinned doors with fancy molds, to stacks of custom veneer panels. The only difference between them is the press head tooling used to create even force. I bought several for making electronic widget composite panels.

PS – If you want to go dirt cheap, and can afford much longer cycle times; heated 3D vacuum presses can be used. Not most energy efficient method as you waste the power used to create vacuum with every cycle. The heated press retains some heat and typically has lower energy usage per panel.

IMHO – If you want to pursue industrial woodworking machinery for business, suggest you need to skip the hobby forums and start finding local business references. Try to find something like US based Modern Woodworking Blue Book or WMMA in South America for more local help.

Best Luck!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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