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Wrapping PVC columns with veneer?

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Forum topic by WoodChuck_SF posted 09-10-2020 08:46 PM 450 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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WoodChuck_SF

14 posts in 2115 days


09-10-2020 08:46 PM

Topic tags/keywords: table pvc veneer glue wrap bag column columns

I’ve decided to try reproducing this table. It’s mostly made with veneered MDF and uses 4” PVC columns wrapped in veneer as the supports. I’ve never used PVC with wood veneer before, and can’t find too many resources here or anywhere else online as to how to glue the veneer to the PVC.

The veneer I’m using is 10 mil paper backed African Mahogany. I’ve done small small testing regarding the glues, and out of everything I tried the standard Gorilla Glue does the best job of really bonding the two materials together. Using PSA veneer is not an option for me.

I have a veneer bag, but was told “With a vacuum bag pulled around the cylinder, you will still have two small areas where the bag comes together and has little pressure against the veneer. And getting the veneer cut to the exact size (while allowing for some possible expansion from the glue) is nearly impossible. You will need to prevent the bag from pulling into the tubes. Otherwise, you will have a bang like you’ve never heard before when the bag pops”

The only other way I’ve seen is to glue the veneer around the column, overlap the ends, wrap a wide rubber resistance band (used for exercising) around the tube to hold in place while it sets. Then after an hour or so, remove the band, cut a center line through the overlapping area of veneer, making a nice tight seam, and re-wrap column with the rubber band until the glue dries.

Does anyone have any other thoughts or advice on how to achieve this?

Thanks!


13 replies so far

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Loren

10712 posts in 4530 days


#1 posted 09-10-2020 09:02 PM

I know it can be done with hot hide glue. I would probably test contact cement.

If you cut the sheets a little undersized a patch piece can be inserted. I’d expect that to come up and I might prefer cutting them short to messing around with an overlap strategy. A uniform 1/8”-1/4” wide groove for the patch can be cut in the wrapped veneer using a trim router and a jig.

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WoodChuck_SF

14 posts in 2115 days


#2 posted 09-10-2020 11:57 PM

Ok, I hadn’t thought of trying a patch. That’s something I’ll look into. Thanks.

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Lazyman

5864 posts in 2270 days


#3 posted 09-11-2020 01:12 AM

I doubt that hide glue would stick permanently to PVC. I know that glue drips pop easy off of my laminate assembly table anyway. I’d probably look at contact cement. With veneer that thin, it is not too hard to trim an overlap with an Exact-o knife or razor blade but with contact cement, cleaning off any adhesive residue could be a problem.

An alternative to PVC is to buy a wood or MDF hollow architectural column so that you could use hot hide glue or other wood veneer glues. It is more work but you could also make your own hollow wood columns using a birds mouth router bit. You first make a 12 or 16 sided column and then use a plane and/or belt sander to round off the corners.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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WoodChuck_SF

14 posts in 2115 days


#4 posted 09-11-2020 01:21 AM

At this point I already have the PVC tubes purchased, and cut. I did think about using cardboard columns (very thick, very smooth and well made) to glue on to. But I think the price was very high for those. The original manufacturer used PVC for these tables, so I know there’s a way to do it. I might just use scrap PVC first and try one and see how it turns out.

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LeeRoyMan

1422 posts in 609 days


#5 posted 09-11-2020 03:25 AM

I spray contact cement, so that would be my method.

Give the PVC a little tooth with a piece of 100 grit sandpaper first.
Draw a straight line the length of the pipe. This is your starting point sticking the veneer even on the line.

I use a straight edge to rout a clean edge on the veneer edge I will be sticking first.

I wrap about 3/4 of the tube then slide in a piece of paper (like butcher paper) then wrap the veneer the rest of the way around.
Mark the edge where it overlaps at the top and bottom. pull the veneer back, use a straight edge and rout the other side of the veneer on the lines.
Clean out any debris, pull the paper out and finish rolling the veneer.

This is the concept, how you manage the steps is up to you, but it works pretty much the way I explained with the tools I have. Depending on your tools, steps may need a little tweaking.

As with any of my suggestions, it’s just food for thought for you to develop your own method that works for you.

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WoodChuck_SF

14 posts in 2115 days


#6 posted 09-11-2020 04:16 PM

Ok, so if I understand you right:

Sand PVC at 100 grit.
Make straight reference line on PVC to align edge. Make sure first edge of veneer to be glued is straight.
Spray contact cement on tube.
Lay down veneer starting on line.
Wrap 3/4 of PVC
Use butcher paper to mask glue from sticking on final area.
Overlap, and mark where seam should be.
Cut edge of veneer to proper size.
Finish wrapping PVC and wait for glue to cure.

Sound about right?


I spray contact cement, so that would be my method.

Give the PVC a little tooth with a piece of 100 grit sandpaper first.
Draw a straight line the length of the pipe. This is your starting point sticking the veneer even on the line.

I use a straight edge to rout a clean edge on the veneer edge I will be sticking first.

I wrap about 3/4 of the tube then slide in a piece of paper (like butcher paper) then wrap the veneer the rest of the way around.
Mark the edge where it overlaps at the top and bottom. pull the veneer back, use a straight edge and rout the other side of the veneer on the lines.
Clean out any debris, pull the paper out and finish rolling the veneer.

This is the concept, how you manage the steps is up to you, but it works pretty much the way I explained with the tools I have. Depending on your tools, steps may need a little tweaking.

As with any of my suggestions, it s just food for thought for you to develop your own method that works for you.

- LeeRoyMan


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LeeRoyMan

1422 posts in 609 days


#7 posted 09-11-2020 04:27 PM


Ok, so if I understand you right:

Sand PVC at 100 grit.
Make straight reference line on PVC to align edge. Make sure first edge of veneer to be glued is straight.
Spray contact cement on tube.
Lay down veneer starting on line.
Wrap 3/4 of PVC
Use butcher paper to mask glue from sticking on final area.
Overlap, and mark where seam should be.
Cut edge of veneer to proper size.
Finish wrapping PVC and wait for glue to cure.

Sound about right?

- WoodChuck_SF


Sounds about right.

Problem areas would be with paper masking sticking,
make sure contact cement is good and dry, but within time constraints as recommended by manufacturer.
You could also not spray that area until after trimming the edge.(a little tricky)
I would do a small piece (maybe a 10” long piece) for a sample first.

Next area would be trimming off the access. Some way to hold the post solid while trimming would help.
After trimming you will most likely have to clean off some debris buggers, might have to slightly respray some contact if it gets too dusty depending on how you trim it.

Cleaning off contact cement overspray with mineral spirits won’t hurt anything.

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WoodChuck_SF

14 posts in 2115 days


#8 posted 09-21-2020 07:44 PM

I did a test with contact cement, using the 3M Super 77 spray. I sprayed both surfaces, waited five minutes, and wrapped the veneer around the column. As far as ease of use, it worked well. It was pretty tight smooth bond. The next day I peeled some of the veneer at the seam, and with some effort I was able to pull the sheet off. I was looking for a more permanent bond, but so far I haven’t been able to find any other product.

My concern is that after a few years the veneer will possibly start to com off, but maybe I’m wrong. Does anyone else have experience using paper backed veneer and contact cement on a curved surface, and can comment on long term holding ability?

Thanks

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LeeRoyMan

1422 posts in 609 days


#9 posted 09-21-2020 07:56 PM

I use Hibond 12 that I get in 5 gallon pails and spray from a pressure pot.

If your going to use the 3M out of a spray can, I would recommend the spray 90, not the 77.

From what I have ever known, contact cement gets stronger and harder as it ages, someone may have more input on that, but it’s what I’ve always thought.

I can’t say about the 3M brands, though, I do use the 90 for strips and small stuff.

I also prefer the wood backed veneer (wood on wood) over the paper backed.

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woodbutcherbynight

6297 posts in 3292 days


#10 posted 09-22-2020 02:44 AM

How is your veneer stored? Flat?? Or in a round tube? When I did a 8 inch tube for a friend he wanted Formica. I rolled the Formica until it fit inside the tube and then used a heat gun on a jig to blow hot air inside the tube. After a bit the Formica became pliable and I was able to slowly decrease the rolled Formica to a 4 inch tube. Let cool over night. When I took it out it was curved and fit snuggly on the 8 inch tube. Used brush on contact cement and installed. Saw it few weeks ago still bonded.

Just a suggestion.

Test a piece and see how it does, you could use a hair drier in place of the heat gun. But your spouse might not like it.

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

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WoodChuck_SF

14 posts in 2115 days


#11 posted 09-28-2020 05:22 PM

Ok, I’ll check out Hibond. I’ve tried the spray 90 before, but it comes out very stringy and sorta lumpy (apparently designed that way). I hope the contact cement hardens over time. That would help.


I use Hibond 12 that I get in 5 gallon pails and spray from a pressure pot.

If your going to use the 3M out of a spray can, I would recommend the spray 90, not the 77.

From what I have ever known, contact cement gets stronger and harder as it ages, someone may have more input on that, but it s what I ve always thought.

I can t say about the 3M brands, though, I do use the 90 for strips and small stuff.

I also prefer the wood backed veneer (wood on wood) over the paper backed.

- LeeRoyMan


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WoodChuck_SF

14 posts in 2115 days


#12 posted 09-28-2020 05:25 PM

I did cut the pieces into a tube shape, rolled to around a 3” diameter, and taped shut. Then I let them sit. So in theory they should be ready to wrap around a 4” tube with not much effort. I’ve done a lot of work on this table, and it would really bum me out if in 5 years the veneer from the columns just starts to delaminate. I’m really keeping my fingers crossed on this one!


How is your veneer stored? Flat?? Or in a round tube? When I did a 8 inch tube for a friend he wanted Formica. I rolled the Formica until it fit inside the tube and then used a heat gun on a jig to blow hot air inside the tube. After a bit the Formica became pliable and I was able to slowly decrease the rolled Formica to a 4 inch tube. Let cool over night. When I took it out it was curved and fit snuggly on the 8 inch tube. Used brush on contact cement and installed. Saw it few weeks ago still bonded.

Just a suggestion.

Test a piece and see how it does, you could use a hair drier in place of the heat gun. But your spouse might not like it.

- woodbutcherbynight


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Loren

10712 posts in 4530 days


#13 posted 09-28-2020 09:26 PM

I’ve used Barge contact cement on wood. It’s really, really good stuff. It’s formulated for leatherworking and it’s practically impossible to get it off. Shoe Goo is a similar formula but you need to get the toxic stuff with toluene in it.

Regular woodworking contact cement for plastic laminate is not the same sort of stuff.

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