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End grain cutting board advice

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Forum topic by toolie posted 09-05-2020 08:51 PM 473 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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toolie

2193 posts in 3545 days


09-05-2020 08:51 PM

Hi all. I’m returning to the shop after a year long hiatus and am concentrating on end grain cutting boards. This initial outing is following these plans by the Wood Whisperer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m08XLrcaXWk

I’m using 8/4 hard maple and purple heart and i’m getting a significant amount of burning when ripping pieces to width.Table saw is perfectly aligned (i.e., fence is perfectly aligned to the same miter slot that the blade is aligned to).
The TS is a Ridgid 2412 and has always performed well. Blade is a 28 tooth craftsman from years ago when they still represented compliance with fairly demanding standards of performance. My thought is it’s time for a new ripping blade. (1) Not being adept at using this sites many features, can someone please point me to the latest blade review or summary?

(2) Also, is it worth the time to run the burned edges through the drum sander before this first glue up to smooth out some of the burns or is that a waste of time and effort? Constructive comments welcomed on both questions. Thank you.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.


15 replies so far

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1540 posts in 2869 days


#1 posted 09-05-2020 09:04 PM

I agree that a new ripping blade is probably in order. Purple Heart is very dense and it burns like crazy unless the saw is set up perfectly and you have a good blade. The burn mark on the other (maple?) piece may be due to a build up of crud on the blade from the purple heart burn.

I have followed the Wood Whisperer design many times. On the first glue up you are gluing the sawn faces together. The burn will be buried and out of sight unless it is amazingly deep. Anything you do to try to remove the burn will change the thickness of the piece. This can lead to a misalignment of the seams when you do the final assembly after the second (crosscut) cuts. I don’t think the burn will show, especially since the end grain of the purple heat will be very dark when you oil it. Misaligned joints will stick out like a sore thumb (DAMHIK).

I really like the Wood Whisperer design. I have modified it a little by making templates to give a gentle curve to the ends and sides of the board. Trace the outline on the board, cut close with the bandsaw, carpet tape the template to the board and use a flush trim bit on the router table to give perfect results. Create a bullnose profile on the router table and you are good to go. I think I make my hand holds a bit deeper as well and I include some feet from the big box store.

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Aj2

3499 posts in 2715 days


#2 posted 09-05-2020 09:07 PM

Hardmaple and Purple Heart are very difficult to rip without burning. Mostly it’s due to the wood releasing tension as you cut. It could be both twisting and bowing at the same time.
What the solution. Or I should say what I would do. Rip everything down on my bandsaw. Then I would joint plane and rip to my size. Gluing up all the milled wood the same day.
Truth be told I wouldn’t even bother with this type of work in my area it’s just too hot for gluing and wood movement is a big when it’s 114 million degrees outside. :)
I didn’t know even know Mark still has followers what a trip.
Good Luck

-- Aj

View LesB's profile

LesB

2669 posts in 4360 days


#3 posted 09-06-2020 06:05 PM

If the Craftsman blade is carbide tipped you can get it sharpened a lot cheaper than a new blade. But, there have been improvements in blade designs and quality of carbide over the years and others such as slippery coatings. It never hurts to have more than one blade.

You didn’t mention the size and power of your saw. If it is underpowered for ripping these thick hardwoods can result in the wood moving too slowly through the blade contributing to the burn problem. Cut over size and plane or thickness sand to dimension.

FYI, the purple hears it great looking when freshly cut but in a cutting board application without a hard top coat of finish the wood will quickly turn brown and look more like walnut or other dark wood. Even if it is sealed in with a top coat it will still turn brown eventually.

-- Les B, Oregon

View Spotcheck's profile

Spotcheck

36 posts in 3443 days


#4 posted 09-06-2020 08:50 PM

Maple is prone to burning, as noted. FWIW – Cherry also burns. I got nuttin’ on purple heart – never used it

You sound like breadboards are going to be a somewhat regular process. I would save the craftsman for junk work, and get at least one new sawblade. I say “at least” because here is what I did for years before shop downsized:

40 tooth up through 5/4
30 tooth up through 8/4
20 tooth over 8/4, and also for white oak 8/4. That is some DENSE stuff.

By managing the tooth count v lumber thickness, you will be able to move fast enough across the sawblade to [virtually] eliminate burning. Wouldn’t dare say “never”

You will need a pass across the jointer to get a great glue edge.

I’m a fan of Forrest blades, and I always returned to them for sharpening. I’m not trying to start anything about blade brands, just telling you what I did for a couple decades.

I realize that this is a lot of $$$ for sawblades. If this is going to be a regular part of your work, you should at least consider tooling up to match the process to the product. The 20 isn’t a requirement, but I can’t imagine running all that 8/4 without a 30. The 30 and 20 blades made a huge difference to me – the speed of use, and the “easiness” of use. WIsh I’d done it years earlier

It is also worth considering that putting a lot of muscle into ripping is not the most safe thing to do – your extra effort can lead to slips, etc.

Good luck

View gdaveg's profile

gdaveg

54 posts in 119 days


#5 posted 09-06-2020 09:14 PM

Toolie,

1. I did a search for TS ripping blades. Most are several years old. For the money I like the Diablo blades.

2. Like others said above, the burns will not impact the final board. If they bug you run them through a sander all at the same time on a flat board that you double back tape them to, or use spots of hot glue.

3. I have found Purple Heart one of the hardest woods to cut, it likes to ride up the saw blade, and also burns. I am very careful to make sure I have enough down force when cutting it.

4. Kazooman, that is one fine looking end grain cutting board.

-- Dave, Vancouver, WA

View hairy's profile

hairy

3139 posts in 4449 days


#6 posted 09-07-2020 02:32 PM

If possible, cut slightly oversize, then take a skim cut to remove the burn. Sometimes it works, depends on the wood used.

-- I still love you baby, but I sure don't want you back. Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

6655 posts in 1491 days


#7 posted 09-07-2020 07:32 PM

Hit edit, and it double tapped me????

-- Think safe, be safe

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

6655 posts in 1491 days


#8 posted 09-07-2020 07:38 PM


If possible, cut slightly oversize, then take a skim cut to remove the burn. Sometimes it works, depends on the wood used.

- hairy

Both saw blades and router bits look like best cut ever doing this simple magic trick. The biggest trick though is using sharp cutters all the time. ;-)

For straight up single purpose blades Freud offers good bang for the buck, pretty much depends if you want to pay for the red coating, or not. That coating is a big sticking point for a lot of users. I can’t say it’s been a problem with me, but hey, offering it in both flavors works, right….

Red with coating glue line ripper.

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Industrial-Ripping-Blade-LM74R010/dp/B00006XMTV

Plain Jane no coating glue line ripper.

https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Glue-Ripping-Blade-LM74M010/dp/B00006XMTU

For the money either will make a lot of cuts. Looks like colored red, saves some money…..

-- Think safe, be safe

View Bstrom's profile

Bstrom

210 posts in 90 days


#9 posted 09-07-2020 10:37 PM



If possible, cut slightly oversize, then take a skim cut to remove the burn. Sometimes it works, depends on the wood used.

- hairy


I do this as a rule to fit pieces and it is a solution for burns – also read up on how thew fence needs a 1/32” ‘taper’ to release the cut end of stock and avoid binding. Especially useful with thicker pieces, I guess…

-- Bstrom

View hairy's profile

hairy

3139 posts in 4449 days


#10 posted 09-08-2020 12:10 AM

I get a burn if I stop during the cut, like to get a push stick. If you can plan your cut with a consistent feed rate you might not get burnt so bad.

-- I still love you baby, but I sure don't want you back. Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown

View splintergroup's profile (online now)

splintergroup

4129 posts in 2139 days


#11 posted 09-08-2020 03:31 PM

One consideration for the burning and glue-up is the burn area is basically a coating of carbon and that might affect the glue adhesion. I love the DS for removing TS blade mark issues but be aware that the DS can cause even more burning with purple heart unless you are really careful to make shallow passes and avoid fine grits. Once the belt gets a hint of glazing, it’s all downhill from there.

Tip: You can easily restore a sap/resin glazed belt with a soak in ammonia and a stiff rinse with a garden hose sprayer.

View bugradx2's profile

bugradx2

194 posts in 936 days


#12 posted 09-08-2020 03:52 PM

Spotcheck – that’s a neat idea!


Maple is prone to burning, as noted. FWIW – Cherry also burns. I got nuttin on purple heart – never used it

You sound like breadboards are going to be a somewhat regular process. I would save the craftsman for junk work, and get at least one new sawblade. I say “at least” because here is what I did for years before shop downsized:

40 tooth up through 5/4
30 tooth up through 8/4
20 tooth over 8/4, and also for white oak 8/4. That is some DENSE stuff.

By managing the tooth count v lumber thickness, you will be able to move fast enough across the sawblade to [virtually] eliminate burning. Wouldn t dare say “never”

You will need a pass across the jointer to get a great glue edge.

I m a fan of Forrest blades, and I always returned to them for sharpening. I m not trying to start anything about blade brands, just telling you what I did for a couple decades.

I realize that this is a lot of $$$ for sawblades. If this is going to be a regular part of your work, you should at least consider tooling up to match the process to the product. The 20 isn t a requirement, but I can t imagine running all that 8/4 without a 30. The 30 and 20 blades made a huge difference to me – the speed of use, and the “easiness” of use. WIsh I d done it years earlier

It is also worth considering that putting a lot of muscle into ripping is not the most safe thing to do – your extra effort can lead to slips, etc.

Good luck

- Spotcheck


-- The only thing not measured in my shop is time

View toolie's profile

toolie

2193 posts in 3545 days


#13 posted 09-10-2020 07:33 PM



If possible, cut slightly oversize, then take a skim cut to remove the burn. Sometimes it works, depends on the wood used.

- hairy

Hi Hairy. If I understand this suggestion properly, work pieces would be cut slightly over sized (e.g., 1/8”) and then trimmed down to final size with a cut off one side of the work piece equal to the amount of the oversize, right?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View toolie's profile

toolie

2193 posts in 3545 days


#14 posted 09-10-2020 07:37 PM


You will need a pass across the jointer to get a great glue edge.

Im not sure this si possible with End Grain cutting boards. Any variation between pieces of a given size (there are usually at least two pieces for each size cut), it’s important that they be the same size. Size differences result in unmatched grid lines.

Regardless, thanks for the thoughtful comments and suggestions.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View hairy's profile

hairy

3139 posts in 4449 days


#15 posted 09-10-2020 10:38 PM


If possible, cut slightly oversize, then take a skim cut to remove the burn. Sometimes it works, depends on the wood used.

- hairy

Hi Hairy. If I understand this suggestion properly, work pieces would be cut slightly over sized (e.g., 1/8”) and then trimmed down to final size with a cut off one side of the work piece equal to the amount of the oversize, right?

- toolie

Basically yes, make sure you cut off the burn,play around with some scraps until you get it figured out.

-- I still love you baby, but I sure don't want you back. Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown

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