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Forum topic by isuhunter posted 08-19-2020 07:57 PM 440 views 0 times favorited 28 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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isuhunter

14 posts in 945 days


08-19-2020 07:57 PM

We are in the process of finalizing designs and building a deck. Joists are 12” on center all 2×10 framing, 6×6 posts – Going to finish with trex product. A few questions for everyone:

Framing – nail or structural screws? GRK is readily available in our areas from Mendards or Home Depot
Joist hangers – nail or screws?

I wouldn’t mind adding a nailer to my collection of “necessary tools” but I’m all setup to screw. I realize there are differences in shear strength if you aren’t purchasing structural screws.

This deck meets the AWC Deck code 6.


28 replies so far

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2621 posts in 3524 days


#1 posted 08-20-2020 12:55 AM

I’m not a deck guy but thinking about building a deck also. Mine would be much lower than yours. Basically to make a flat place on a slope.

-- I intended to be a woodworker, but turned into a tool and lumber collector.

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Ocelot

2621 posts in 3524 days


#2 posted 08-20-2020 01:31 AM

Sorry. I cut my comments short because dinner was served.

It sounds like you’ve studied up on this, but I was wondering whether it’s best to support the edge of the deck as you have shown by connecting to the house or if would be better to have the deck free standing.

I have a nailer and would use it for the sake of speed.

Screws might be better for the deck boards unless you use grooved boards and concealed clips. I think straight nails have a tendency to pop up. Spiral nails driven by a nailer I think are another option.

You will get more answers on a construction forum. Lumberjocks is more of a furniture making kind of site.

-- I intended to be a woodworker, but turned into a tool and lumber collector.

View Jared_S's profile

Jared_S

401 posts in 845 days


#3 posted 08-20-2020 02:13 AM



Sorry. I cut my comments short because dinner was served.

It sounds like you ve studied up on this, but I was wondering whether it s best to support the edge of the deck as you have shown by connecting to the house or if would be better to have the deck free standing.

I have a nailer and would use it for the sake of speed.

Screws might be better for the deck boards unless you use grooved boards and concealed clips. I think straight nails have a tendency to pop up. Spiral nails driven by a nailer I think are another option.

You will get more answers on a construction forum. Lumberjocks is more of a furniture making kind of site.

- Ocelot

Freestanding (per irc code) requires cross braces at every post in addition to the braces being larger and set farther out. If you are trying to maximize the open space and not block the view or natural light freestanding its not the ideal way to go.

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Ocelot

2621 posts in 3524 days


#4 posted 08-20-2020 02:23 AM

Where I live if you build it yourself on your own house, you don’t have to build to code. The laws of physics, however, are always in effect.

-- I intended to be a woodworker, but turned into a tool and lumber collector.

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GordonS

1 post in 101 days


#5 posted 08-20-2020 04:47 AM

My inspector accepted nailing the framing. Construction screws for attachment to the house. I caution you on the railing system specs. regarding impact resistance. (One standard I’ve found is 250 pounds)
And with respect, no one should suggest constructing a second-story deck without regard to code compliance or AHJ inspection. When such a deck detaches and takes a dozen guests to the ground (it’s happened) the home owner’s insurance will likely be insufficient. Perhaps the claim would even be denied.

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bmerrill

121 posts in 959 days


#6 posted 08-20-2020 01:30 PM

Just went through replacing my 25 year old PT deck this spring with AZEK decking products.
Pull a permit. Review the code requirements. Talk with the AHJ.
It will take you 5 times as long, cost 3 times as much and required $1000+ of screws and fasteners.
If you can find Kiln dried after treatment use it, else you’ll be dealing with board shrinkage.
Remove the existing ledger and replace. You may find rot behind it. Flash, flash flash, and not with aluminum as it doesn’t play well with PT lumber (don’t ask me how I know).
Follow the building code and the fastener manufacture requirements for spacing and size/length of lag screws to attach the ledger board to the structure. I used GRK for this. Adjust screw spacing to miss the location of the joist hangers. If you want to leave a gap between the house and the ledger, there are spacers made for this.
Add 2 rows of solid blocking between joist.
Consider covering the top edge of the joist with G-Tape.
Are you going to picture frame the deck to hide the ugly end of the composite boards? If so this will require even more blocking. The ugly end can also be painted to match the top color.
Typically 4 joist would be anchored to the house rim joist. There are hardware kits from Simpson for this.
Simpson and others fastener companies have spec sheets and guides on using their deck products. https://www.strongtie.com/solutions/deckcenter
Use joist hangers with screws. Makes for easy adjustment of joist heights because they will shrink
I used joist hangers on the ledger and the outside rim joist, but also added 3 Fastenmaster Ledgerloc screws per joist screwed from the outside rim joist into the end of the joist.
Crown your joist. Keep the top of the joist as level as possible. Be aware, they will shrink.
With composite decking a double joist is required at deck board butt joints since the end requires a bearing of 1.5”.
Use hidden fasteners where you can. Where you can’t, use Cortex fasteners which come with matching plugs for deck boards.
Guard rail post attachments have changed through the years. It now requires blocking, lots of screws, etc.
There is series of videos on YouTube from FineHomeBuilding “New Shop Class video series on Critical Deck Connections”. Spend the time to watch the series, then repeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui2GGSRxYyM
Watch the videos produced by the decking companies, Trex, Timbertech/AZEK. Download their installation documents.

-- Woodworking, the transformation of nature to culture.

View Robert's profile

Robert

4058 posts in 2367 days


#7 posted 08-20-2020 01:44 PM

Its always best to pull a permit, much as I hate to say it, for insurance and/or resale purposes sometimes a home inspector can hurt you.

But to answer your question, I would be really surprised if code wouldn’t call for joist hangers.

Obviously on a deck that high off the ground, bracing is going to be a critical factor.

Personally I would let in the braces, in a timber frame fashion, rather than just bolt them in.

The 12” joist spacing is good choice for composite decking.

I strongly suggest using concealed clips. I did my deck with face screws and it looks awful. Tapping around the mush the composite into the hole doesn’t work, either.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Craftsman on the lake

3530 posts in 4324 days


#8 posted 08-20-2020 01:52 PM

One thing I’ve done with my posts that I really like is that I use 4×4” posts and then veneer them with 6 ” deck boards. It make the posts like a 6”, looks good, and I can extend them right up and along the sides of the desk supports underneath the joists. I noticed you have short boards for that. Sort of like it except they go all the way to the ground.
My last deck was 16×24’ and up off the ground like yours…. Lotsa fun for sure. I was 60 when I did it. Last one like that I think I’ll be doing.
I’m also a big fan of HeadLok screws for some framing. Easy and strong. search on HD site.

BTW…. some one mentioned supporting the deck on posts instead of connecting to the house…. When you get insurance they ask which method you used and want to hear that it’s connected to house, especially if it’s that high in the air.

And a bolt or couple of lag screws in the angled braces will be plenty strong. The pressure isn’t that much sheer. It follows the angle of the brace.

I have a nail gun so I use it. But screws, a lot more time consuming are plenty good too.

For anyone using 2x’s to attach railings on to posts. I’ve found that those long brown deck screws with tiny heads, at an angle hold really well, go in easy, and hardly show after.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View isuhunter's profile

isuhunter

14 posts in 945 days


#9 posted 08-20-2020 02:53 PM

Great great info everyone! I appreciate it.

- I have a permit pulled and we’ve had utilities marked
- We will be using joist hangers per code – what screws do you recommend for the joist hangers?
- I plan to flash with the membrane and coated flashing as a double layer
- I need to add blocking for the joists
- I also need to add blocking for the picture frame as well

I love the critical connections video I have watched them a few times already!

GRK RSS 5/16” x 5 1/8” for my ledge connection is what I was planning on, spaced at 6”

View 23tony's profile

23tony

69 posts in 1055 days


#10 posted 08-20-2020 03:45 PM

For joist hanger fasteners, you might want to check the manufacturer’s website. The ones I’ve used in the past had charts on their sites indicating what to use for what size joist & hanger. From what I picked up, they might not warranty the hanger if installed using a non-recommended fastener.

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

4059 posts in 2108 days


#11 posted 08-20-2020 03:56 PM

I can’t remember the specs, but I know that with the Trex (and other non-wood decking) you need tighter joist spacing versus wood. The decking is quite springy and get soft when in the heat. For the joist hangers, the ones I’ve used in the past (Simpson) specify a certain nail. Though I really like the pull-out resistance of screws, their shear strength might make a difference so it’s good advice to use what is spec’d from the mfgr.

Looks like it’s going to be a sweet addition to your property!

View PaulHWood's profile

PaulHWood

467 posts in 3139 days


#12 posted 08-20-2020 04:02 PM

Thats not true, even if a permit is not required, it must be built to code.


Where I live if you build it yourself on your own house, you don t have to build to code. The laws of physics, however, are always in effect.

- Ocelot


-- -Paul, South Carolina Structural Engineer by trade, Crappy Woodworker by choice

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PaulHWood

467 posts in 3139 days


#13 posted 08-20-2020 04:06 PM

Simpson has a line of screws specifically tested with their hangers and made for PT wood. I ould use those. Not all screws have a structural rating or are rated to be used with simpson or usp hangers. Blocking is required for some spans and will stiffen your deck and it is very inexpensive if you are providing the labor. I would suggest overblocking ie if required at mid point, provide at third points.


Great great info everyone! I appreciate it.

- I have a permit pulled and we ve had utilities marked
- We will be using joist hangers per code – what screws do you recommend for the joist hangers?
- I plan to flash with the membrane and coated flashing as a double layer
- I need to add blocking for the joists
- I also need to add blocking for the picture frame as well

I love the critical connections video I have watched them a few times already!

GRK RSS 5/16” x 5 1/8” for my ledge connection is what I was planning on, spaced at 6”

- isuhunter


-- -Paul, South Carolina Structural Engineer by trade, Crappy Woodworker by choice

View sras's profile

sras

5599 posts in 4015 days


#14 posted 08-20-2020 04:06 PM

+1 on the joist spacing comment

you can find the recommendations on line (if you haven’t already)

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View PaulHWood's profile

PaulHWood

467 posts in 3139 days


#15 posted 08-20-2020 04:07 PM

It also exhibits creep on longer spans. Check a park bench made of composite and they all sag in the middle over time.


I can t remember the specs, but I know that with the Trex (and other non-wood decking) you need tighter joist spacing versus wood. The decking is quite springy and get soft when in the heat. For the joist hangers, the ones I ve used in the past (Simpson) specify a certain nail. Though I really like the pull-out resistance of screws, their shear strength might make a difference so it s good advice to use what is spec d from the mfgr.

Looks like it s going to be a sweet addition to your property!

- splintergroup


-- -Paul, South Carolina Structural Engineer by trade, Crappy Woodworker by choice

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