LumberJocks

Can I actually upgrade my HF Dust Collector?

  • Advertise with us

« back to Safety in the Woodworking Shop forum

Forum topic by Lislewood posted 08-08-2020 02:06 PM 754 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Lislewood's profile

Lislewood

14 posts in 161 days


08-08-2020 02:06 PM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collection harbor freight dust question

I have attached pictures of my dust collection setup below.
Forgive the mess because I have been changing the layout of my shop as through trial and error and just finished a chair, a patio bench and a walk-in closet.
The problem is the amount of dust that has accumulated despite the dust collector.

If I keep the setup shown in the pictures:

is there a dust collector out there (the Grizzlies, Jets, etc) that I can upgrade to before I have to go big and get an Oneida type system?

I have the chips collecting in that metal can:

and the air being vented directly outside.

I love this because I have no bags to change!
The planer tends to overpower the dust collector and I have to have an additional filter on the discharge to stop the chips being blown out of the house, this is affecting performance.
I was going to simply purchase a super dust deputy but before I drop the same amount of money as the dust collector on a cyclone, I wanted to know if there was a better solution.


11 replies so far

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

6241 posts in 1422 days


#1 posted 08-08-2020 02:39 PM

I am not one to suggest the cyclone will increase your abilities. It will keep the dust from getting to your filter if there is one, and for most set ups that in turn does help maintain that like new performance. So my $$$ says a cyclone keeps a lot of the problems that come with time on a DC system from happening, or at least not as much.

Vented outdoors do you even have a filter?

From the looks of it, if you aren’t happy with the HF collectors performance, I’d say it looks like you have it maxed out, that is a lot of pipe to pull. I think if you plan to continue the outdoor dump, save your pennies for a DC with some more Oomph.

I’ve got one, and on a point to point hook up like I use mine, it takes on all single machines I have. I find my 19/38 wide belt sander is the biggest dust producer, and it can keep up nicely. I would never dream of using it on a system with more than 3 hook ups though.

-- Think safe, be safe

View clagwell's profile

clagwell

293 posts in 640 days


#2 posted 08-08-2020 02:53 PM

With the duct system you have a bigger blower will make almost no difference. I hate to say it but you really need to rip all of that out and start over. There’s too much hose, the duct is too small and the separator has a huge loss.

As a guesstimate, I would expect fixing your ducting problems and keeping the HF would make at least twice the improvement you would get by replacing the HF with a 5Hp blower and keeping the ducting.

Fixing the ducting will be expensive but just changing out the DC would be money wasted.

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

View Lislewood's profile

Lislewood

14 posts in 161 days


#3 posted 08-08-2020 03:09 PM

Yeah, I was actually hoping it was more the ducting than the dust collector itself.
The ducts are all 4 inch or 5 inch though so I don’t know how that’s small. There is only one 2.5 inch and that is for my sander and general cleanup.

I’ll buy more smooth pvc pipe today to fix the issues around the blower and increase the smooth straight runs.


With the duct system you have a bigger blower will make almost no difference. I hate to say it but you really need to rip all of that out and start over. There s too much hose, the duct is too small and the separator has a huge loss.

As a guesstimate, I would expect fixing your ducting problems and keeping the HF would make at least twice the improvement you would get by replacing the HF with a 5Hp blower and keeping the ducting.

Fixing the ducting will be expensive but just changing out the DC would be money wasted.

- clagwell


View clagwell's profile

clagwell

293 posts in 640 days


#4 posted 08-08-2020 03:59 PM

It looks to me like you have 2 pieces of 5” hose right at the blower with the rest being 4” but it’s hard to tell just by looking at your photo. Keep in mind that 4” duct has about three times the loss of 5”. Hose has two to three times the resistance of the same size smooth pipe.

If your trash can separator is the usual one with two 4” elbows inside it has a loss equivalent to about 65’ of 4” PVC or 200’ of 5” snaplock.

So what I think I see for the path from the planer is a total of about 30’ of 4” hose, 10’ of 4” PVC, the separator and a short length of 5” hose. That’s an equivalent length of 60 to 90 plus 10 plus 65 equals 135 to 165 equivalent length of 4” or about 400 to 500 feet of 5” duct.

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

View Lislewood's profile

Lislewood

14 posts in 161 days


#5 posted 08-08-2020 05:25 PM

So make my runs 5 inches instead of the 4 inches I currently have?
Or Just shorten the 4 inch runs which means adding to my current setup instead of completely replacing my setup?


It looks to me like you have 2 pieces of 5” hose right at the blower with the rest being 4” but it s hard to tell just by looking at your photo. Keep in mind that 4” duct has about three times the loss of 5”. Hose has two to three times the resistance of the same size smooth pipe.

If your trash can separator is the usual one with two 4” elbows inside it has a loss equivalent to about 65 of 4” PVC or 200 of 5” snaplock.

So what I think I see for the path from the planer is a total of about 30 of 4” hose, 10 of 4” PVC, the separator and a short length of 5” hose. That s an equivalent length of 60 to 90 plus 10 plus 65 equals 135 to 165 equivalent length of 4” or about 400 to 500 feet of 5” duct.

- clagwell


View tynewman's profile

tynewman

182 posts in 560 days


#6 posted 08-08-2020 07:44 PM

Im running basicaly the same equipment, same planer, HF dust collector vented outside. The differences are that i have solid 4 inch pipe all the way to the planer and I am running a cyclone. It does a fantastic job, never gets clogged, and i think my planer is a bit farther away. Also, if you go to the cyclone and have a good seal, ou won’t be blowing any chips outside.

-- Ty

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

3586 posts in 2342 days


#7 posted 08-08-2020 09:42 PM

+1 get rid of the all the hose.
Need less than 2-3 feet near each machine. Rest should be smooth wall pipe.
That change alone will make it seem like you have a new dust collector
This article might help:
https://www.woodmagazine.com/figure-dust-collection-needs-by-the-numbers

Need to get rid of those sharp bends too:
https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/dust-collection/avoid-common-duct-design-flaws

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View clagwell's profile

clagwell

293 posts in 640 days


#8 posted 08-09-2020 12:37 PM

Replacing 4” hose with 4” PVC will help slightly in this case but not a whole lot. I think you are now in the range of 260CFM at the planer. Just cleaning up your 4” hose would get you to 280 CFM. If in addition you replace the trash can with a SDD you could have 320 CFM.

If you go all the way, also replacing all of the intake side with 5”, modify the HF blower to 6” in and out and use 6” to the exit you might see 540 CFM.

If you just clean up the 4” and connect it to a V 3000 expect about 460 CFM. All 6” to the planer you could have 950 CFM with the Oneida.

NOTE: These CFM numbers are rough and should be used only for illustrating the relative differences caused by various system modifications.

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

View northwoodsman's profile

northwoodsman

326 posts in 4594 days


#9 posted 08-10-2020 12:28 AM

When I first purchased and installed my Jet Dust Collector I put 4” PVC from the collector, up and across the ceiling in two runs, each with 2 drop downs to equipment. I only used one run at a time. As the kids got older and we added some Kayaks to the mix, I took down one run to make room to hang the kayaks. Performance improved. Needed room to hang something else so I took down half of the other run. Performance improved again. I still had several “Y’s” in-line in case I ever wanted to expand again. I noticed that these “Y’s” were always full of saw-dust. Maybe they created a mini-vortex and created a problem? A few weeks ago I took out all of the “Y’s” and now I have one straight run that drops down in the middle of the garage/shop. It has a 10’ hose that I hook up to my planer, tablesaw, jointer, or bandsaw. The system looks more organized and cleaner and it has never worked better. I purchased a Bosch VAC 090AH for all of my portable tools. I think that I know have the optimal system for my space and tools. For my situation I determined that it is not an issue to connect each piece of equipment as I use it. Performance won over convenience. The convenience factor for me is the remote control to turn the system on and off. Also – a year ago I added a seperator plate below the filter, this helps with performance by keeping the pleated filter MUCH cleaner. The new Jet DC’s have this from the factory but they won’t sell you a retrofit kit. I purchased a 3rd party one for around $30. It took 10 minutes to install it.

-- NorthWoodsMan

View Lislewood's profile

Lislewood

14 posts in 161 days


#10 posted 08-12-2020 05:19 PM

So I updated as much as made financial sense at this time.
Thanks to all your suggestions, i have seen a dramatic improvement.
Next week I’ll work on the discharge line.

View clagwell's profile

clagwell

293 posts in 640 days


#11 posted 08-12-2020 06:02 PM

Although I had the original SDD (5” in / 6” out) in mind when I suggested it I’m sure the 4” version is still a whole lot better than the trash can. Likely much better separation too! The reconfigured inlet also looks good.

Is that a repurposed 4” dryer vent going up the wall for your outlet? If you are keeping that, replacing the 5” hose won’t make much difference. You really have to tackle the much bigger job of replacing the 4” main run with 5” first to get another big increment in performance. Also, you need the regular SDD to take full advantage of the 5” duct.

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com