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Wood Inserts for Live Edge Table - What Length?

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Forum topic by Bluejay123 posted 08-02-2020 03:45 PM 313 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Bluejay123

7 posts in 59 days


08-02-2020 03:45 PM

Topic tags/keywords: inserts live edge patio table wood slab inserts

I’m building a live edge patio table. First timer with woodworking so learning as I go. I’ve viewed several YouTubes and read many articles – none provide any detail on the length of the ‘insert’ I should use to attach my table legs (28” U shaped with 4 holes).

Should I use 20mm or 30mm length? The slab patio table is 22” x 6’. Table depth is about 1.50”. Appreciate some advice. Thanks.


15 replies so far

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

2655 posts in 1011 days


#1 posted 08-02-2020 08:16 PM

photos of what you have will put us all on the same page as you.

.

-- there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks. --

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Aj2

3325 posts in 2646 days


#2 posted 08-03-2020 01:13 AM

I know what the blue jay is talking about. But I cannot tell because I have a minimum fee for using my Psychic abilities. :)
And my crystal ball is in the shop getting fixed. :(

Good Luck

-- Aj

View gdaveg's profile

gdaveg

53 posts in 50 days


#3 posted 08-03-2020 01:21 AM

Bluejay,

are you asking what screw length to use? If so I would use 1.25 inch minimum and as big a diameter as the holes will fit.

If it is over 1.75” may go with 1.5” length but take care with the pilot hole that it is not too deep and screw tip goes through.

I would finish planing and rough sanding work that would decrease depth allowance for fasteners and measure then.

Dave

-- Dave, Vancouver, WA

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Bluejay123

7 posts in 59 days


#4 posted 08-03-2020 03:41 AM

Thank you Dave for your response. I will get the maximum diameter bolt – awaiting delivery of table legs and have the max diameter question into the vendor. U shaped table leg pic.

Let me reframe my question and hopefully provide some clarity. Sanding is complete.

The final slab table depth is 1.5”, not 1.75” as originally stated.

So based upon your answer, I should probably drill to 1” depth, and therefore the inserts to be purchased should be 1” length also. Thanks again!

View Rich's profile

Rich

5868 posts in 1437 days


#5 posted 08-03-2020 04:20 AM

So you’re referring to something like a Festool domino?

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

2655 posts in 1011 days


#6 posted 08-03-2020 11:00 AM

the metal frame you show that you will be using for legs
will require the metal threaded inserts that match the size of
bolts you will be using. you need a metal insert – not a wood insert.
(and you will be needing 4 inserts per leg).
you will also need the appropriate size flat washer between the bolt head and leg frame.
the length of the threaded bolt should be “about” the length of the insert.
some people thrive on custom installation tools ~ I personally just use a bolt.
if you have a project that would benefit from a more beefier mounting, two inserts
can be fitted into the wood, one on top of the other. (strictly a personal judgement call).
looking forward to seeing your finished project.

.

-- there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks. --

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John Smith

2655 posts in 1011 days


#7 posted 08-03-2020 01:25 PM

this is how your installed leg frame should look.
the inserts should be available at your local Box Store.
use flat washers – not lock washers.
do not over-tighten the bolts. just snugged down firmly to allow
the wood to move with the seasons.

.

-- there is no educational alternative to having a front row seat in the School of Hard Knocks. --

View Bluejay123's profile

Bluejay123

7 posts in 59 days


#8 posted 08-03-2020 02:00 PM

Excellent – so awesome. Thank you for the feedback and the link to the excellent youtube!! Very appreciated!!!

View Robert's profile

Robert

3936 posts in 2329 days


#9 posted 08-03-2020 05:03 PM

If this is an outdoor setting exposed to elements (especially sun), you can expect some warping or cupping to occur.

I’ve seen many guys attach angle iron crosswise to the bottom to counteract this, usually a groove being cut that one edge of the angle goes into. Holes elongated to allow for movement, attached with lag bolts.

Speaking of which, why won’t lag bolts will do the same thing as the inserts with a lot less hassle?

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View gdaveg's profile

gdaveg

53 posts in 50 days


#10 posted 08-03-2020 05:19 PM

Bluejay,

If it were me I would try large diameter wood screws like #12 (ish). With the 1.5” thickness would use 1” or 1.25” length and be careful of depth of pilot hole.

Small diameter lag bolts also would work.

The inserts like John Smith are also an alternative. They can be found online at Amazon, link below:

https://www.amazon.com/Z-Threaded-Insert-Internal-Threads/dp/B00207NF6W/ref=pd_sbs_328_2/144-7587736-1260160?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00207NF6W&pd_rd_r=d9bbb0a7-c3e0-48fa-b542-5148c92891a5&pd_rd_w=knwbM&pd_rd_wg=o8TyK&pf_rd_p=0b2db3d1-33eb-418a-9672-bb9bd54808e8&pf_rd_r=JZZB7V35VDNYW15R3P5B&psc=1&refRID=JZZB7V35VDNYW15R3P5B

WS or lags would be much easier. I have not used these inserts but they look useful.

You may already know this but pilot hole diameter is important. This information is online, do a search for “pilot hole diameters for wood screws

On second thought maybe use machine screws with a pan head and washers is better than wood screws. Machine screws have threads the full length of the Shank.

DG

Send me a link to your legs you ordered. It can be by private message or here on the LJ site.

-- Dave, Vancouver, WA

View Rich's profile

Rich

5868 posts in 1437 days


#11 posted 08-03-2020 08:19 PM

I wouldn’t waste my time on threaded inserts unless this is something you want to be able to break down when you move. Washer head screws will work just fine, or just screws with washers.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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Rich

5868 posts in 1437 days


#12 posted 08-03-2020 08:23 PM


On second thought maybe use machine screws with a pan head and washers is better than wood screws. Machine screws have threads the full length of the Shank.

- gdaveg

Machine screws are intended to be used with threaded connectors like a threaded insert or a nut. Perhaps you were thinking of sheet metal screws, which would be ideal to use in this application along with washers.

Good advice overall in your post however. Thanks for sharing.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

View gdaveg's profile

gdaveg

53 posts in 50 days


#13 posted 08-03-2020 08:26 PM

I want to correct my comment saying to use “MACHINE SCREWS”. I meant “Sheet Metal” screws. Which have a pointed end and threads full shank length.

DG


Bluejay,

If it were me I would try large diameter wood screws like #12 (ish). With the 1.5” thickness would use 1” or 1.25” length and be careful of depth of pilot hole.

Small diameter lag bolts also would work.

The inserts like John Smith are also an alternative. They can be found online at Amazon, link below:

https://www.amazon.com/Z-Threaded-Insert-Internal-Threads/dp/B00207NF6W/ref=pd_sbs_328_2/144-7587736-1260160?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00207NF6W&pd_rd_r=d9bbb0a7-c3e0-48fa-b542-5148c92891a5&pd_rd_w=knwbM&pd_rd_wg=o8TyK&pf_rd_p=0b2db3d1-33eb-418a-9672-bb9bd54808e8&pf_rd_r=JZZB7V35VDNYW15R3P5B&psc=1&refRID=JZZB7V35VDNYW15R3P5B

WS or lags would be much easier. I have not used these inserts but they look useful.

You may already know this but pilot hole diameter is important. This information is online, do a search for “pilot hole diameters for wood screws

On second thought maybe use machine screws with a pan head and washers is better than wood screws. Machine screws have threads the full length of the Shank.

DG

Send me a link to your legs you ordered. It can be by private message or here on the LJ site.

- gdaveg


-- Dave, Vancouver, WA

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3325 posts in 2646 days


#14 posted 08-03-2020 09:26 PM

Lag bolts and some washers. Those inserts John suggested are good but I’ve had them lose their hold I probably didn’t drill the right hole or something. I’m usually pretty good about my pilot holes . So I label them tricky.
1 inch lag bolts are pretty hard to mess up.
Good Luck

-- Aj

View Bluejay123's profile

Bluejay123

7 posts in 59 days


#15 posted 08-03-2020 11:37 PM

Thanks everyone for the information, including recommendations for alternatives. As a newbie, I watched many YouTubes, which recommended inserts over screws to avoid loosening over time. I thought this was a standard practice, hence my question to you all! The table, when done, will be used outdoors with no intention of disassembly at anytime. Lag bolts sound good – and yes, I’m familiar with criticality of the pilot hole diameter. Will be installing C channels to prevent cupping and warping.

Here’s a link to the vendor’s product – 16” width.
https://www.etsy.com/transaction/1996170590

Thanks again!

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