Afternoon Guys, quick question concerning my 14 inch Delta bandsaw if you please. The saw has "thrown" the blade3 times in the last week. The blade comes off of the front of the wheel. The wheels are coplaner and the tires are Carter and Son urethane aprox 5 yrs old. The guide blocks are original to the saw but in good condition and the thrust bearings are adjusted properly.
The first time I checked the wheel alignment and clean both the tire surface and the blade (both sides) (woodturners 3/8"); the second time, I went thru the same routine. The third time this morning, I removed the wheels and tires and cleaned both, soaked the tires in 130 degree water with the thought that the heat may cause the tires to shrink back to the original diameter when they cooled on the wheels, realigned all components, reinstalled the blade and you guessed it, it came off after about a minute of cutting an 8 inch bowl blank - no tight turns. I'm at a loss for additional actions. The only thing I noticed after the 3rd incident this morning was that while the tires did seem to shrink back tight on the wheels, I could move the tire(s) from side to side on the wheels after the fact. I'm bettin' that the tires are toast; what do you think; any other points I've over looked?
If you think new tires are in order, any suggestions? The Carter and Son tires are only about 5 yrs old and the saw is used less than 3 times a month. These tires were expensive and I would have expected them to last a lot long.
Have you tried a different blade John? That's always my first stop with seemingly inexplicable bandsaw issues. Could be a twist or a bad weld that causes it to jump off when under pressure. Second thought is to make sure your tracking adjustment is locked down and that it really does lock down. Finally, are you sure it's got enough tension?
One other thought comes to mind. Where does the blade ride the wheels when you put it on? Is the back of the blade riding the crown? If so, try adjusting the tracking so the crown hits closer to the gullets.
Kenny pretty much covered everything I would suggest trying but I just wanted to add a +1 on trying a different blade. I have one blade that won't stay on no matter what I do even though there is nothing obviously wrong with it. I have no problems with any other blades.
It would be helpful if you could watch the tires while in action. You should not be able to move them. If you can, then you probably need to glue them down.
Shampeon -have seen the Snodgrass vid but it's been a while. I'll check it out again. I've always set the wheels coplanar w/o problem but that doesn't mean it's a necessity thanks.
Hokie Ken & Lazyman: Well, Duh! That thought hadn't crossed my mind since the current blade had always run true. Blade is running dead center on the center of the tire (don't think the Carter & Son tire has a crown per se but the wheel does so we're good there but will try a different blade Saturday & report.
Mr.Unix: Can't see any movement in tire when running but can slide it side to side slightly when stationary. The blade has no wobble while running. Can't watch it while actually making a cut. Had always heard that urethane tires shouldn't be glued but will do some more research.
Mr.Unix: Can't see any movement in tire when running but can slide it side to side slightly when stationary. The blade has no wobble while running. Can't watch it while actually making a cut. Had always heard that urethane tires shouldn't be glued but will do some more research.
No.. Urethane tires generally do not need to be glued, which is a feature a lot of people prefer… however, if they become stretched or damaged in any way, they do need to be glued down just like the rubber tires. The centrifugal force combined with the resistance to the blade when cutting can cause the tires to do some strange things, including lifting and bunching under load if allowed to.
If you are positive that your tension/tilt mechanism is not damaged, which is a distinct possibility, then the loose tires are about the only other thing I can think of that will cause blades to jump off. You didn't mention checking the tracking/tension mechanism, so that would be the first place I would look. It is a weak spot on these saws. Pull the upper wheel to get a good look at the tilting bracket (upper wheel hinge) - make sure it's not cracked or warped/bent.
+1 to Hokie Ken's suggestion of setting the blade so the gullet is at the center, not the center of the blade. It's probably the biggest takeaway from the Snodgrass setup video. Try that with the suspect blade before tossing.
A lot of people that run, like, 1" resaw blades will quibble with the centered-gullet thing, but for typical non-production bandsaw blades and sizes, it's a good rule. I suspect blades 3/4" and wider have enough stiffness to resist not being supported just behind the gullet, but a 3/8" blade that is centered on a crowned 14" bandsaw tire is (usually) not going to track straight.
If it was running fine and suddenly started throwing blades check the tracking pivot point. You might need to pull the blade tensioner to see it. Mine started throwing blades… tires looked fine, changed the blade, checked bearings for excessive slop. After an hour and a half screwing around I decided to strip it down clean everything and put it back together. As soon as I took the tensioner out of the the slot I found the pivot was cracked. Found one on Amazon for $80 bucks with shipping. It has worked fine since but I have no clue what caused it to crack.
I'm with the damaged tensioner bracket crowd. I've read many posts here and elsewhere describing the exact same symptoms with no obvious fault. The bracket was the root of all evil in nearly all of these instances.
I would look at the tensioner and tracking bracket also. Tracking adjustment gullet should be center of the wheel. Co planar wheels in theory are nice but once you adjust tracking on that top wheel they are no longer coplanar.
If the tires are loose either glue them down or replace them a moving tire will change the tracking line as it moves.
Latest episode of my bandsaw blade wants to be a bird and take wing!
I rewatched Alex Snodgrass' video last night and again this morning. I completely disassembled all the adjustable parts -and some that weren't adjustable on my 35 yr old Delta 14 "bandsaw, did a complete cleaning and reassembled and adjusted as Alex recommended (and yes, I forgot about the coplaner as Shampeon and Alex suggested). I put the same blade on the saw to hold variables to a minimum, tensioned and tracked correctly, fired it up -free run, no cutting and this time not only did the blade come off but the tire came with it!
I checked the tensioner and it was fine - no cracks, reassembled and hit the switch this time watching the upper wheel and tire. After about 45 seconds, I could see a bulge developing in the tire at about the 5 o'clock position. I'm assuming this is caused by the tire stretching and centrifugal force and the blade tension. I shut the saw down b/4 it could throw the blade, examined the tires and then reversed them and turned inside out. The problem bulge did not reappear to the same degree but "ripples" were noticeable in the tire. At this point, I didn't see any use in trying another blade since the problem seemed obvious.
So my conclusion from all of this is the tire(s) although only 5 yrs old have stretched to the point that they are no longer gripping the wheel tight enough and causing a "wrinkle/bulge" that results in the blade derailing .
Guess I could try to glue the tires to the wheels as some have suggested but not sure what type of glue to use with urethane tires so I'll probably invest in a new set. Any suggestions on a good, reliable tire? The current ones are Carter & Son and I'd like to try another brand that might last longer.
The tensioner mechanism can actually crack and fail. It isn't always obvious, until you take it apart.
Mine broke (Jet bandsaw) and needed to be replaced. Quick, easy and fairly inexpensive to fix.
If it's the tires, it might be tough to get OEM Delta parts. Don't know what brand of tires to recommend. I'm still on my original tires from the 90's.
Unless it's in a production shop, those tires should last for most of the life of the saw. 5 years is way too short.
The only time I ever bought tires for a saw, I bought them from this seller on Ebay. If they don't have your model listed, just contact them and they'll either point you to the right ones or custom make them for you. Their prices are fair and the tires lasted 5+ years on the saw I put them on and showed no signs of wear when I sold the saw. They were kind of a PITA to get on IIRC but once I did, they were right and tight!
I wonder if the urethane tires you replaced the originals with were the wrong size? Not trying to be contrary, but it's hard for me to believe that urethane tires would stretch that significantly over 5 years.
The consensus on OWWM seems to be that rubber tires you glue on are better than urethane. They do need to be crowned, and there's a ton of threads on doing it with jigs, doing it freehand on the bandsaw, etc.
Guess I could try to glue the tires to the wheels as some have suggested but not sure what type of glue to use with urethane tires so I'll probably invest in a new set. Any suggestions on a good, reliable tire? The current ones are Carter & Son and I'd like to try another brand that might last longer.
Blue tires, orange tires, they both work - I think they all are made by one company, and the only real difference besides the color is the blue ones usually cost more (slap a Carter brand on it and double the price). But you shouldn't need new tires, just glue.
Your problem is not that uncommon. As for the glue to use… 3M makes a couple of adhesives that will work. Carter sells some for around $20 which is just 3M 1300 rubber and gasket adhesive (they try to obscure the picture so you can't tell), also sold under the 'Scotch-Weld' name, so you might find it cheaper somewhere else.
Note: I've seen places recommend 3M 5200 adhesive, but would not recommend it. In the boating industry, it's known as the devils glue and is almost impossible to remove once cured. Similar to epoxy, if you use it, you will play hell trying to ever replace a tire again on that wheel.
I completely disassembled all the adjustable parts -and some that weren't adjustable on my 35 yr old Delta 14 "bandsaw,
- Washam
Has anything been done to your bandsaw that could have increased the speed of the wheels?
I refurbished an old bandsaw once and put urethane tires on it. Your description of the bulge forming before the tire came off is the exact thing that happened to me. Ultimately realized that someone had replaced the motor with a higher rpm rated motor than the mfg recommended. Replaced motor and problem went away.
my tensioner broke also on my 14"Powermatic. Now here some don't know like a lot of companies, Jet and Powermatic have merged, parts came for my powermaatic with Jets name on it that's when I found out. like Dewalt and Black and Decker they still produce the 2 names
Measure the diameter of the metal part of your wheel. Chances are it is a but under sized from 14" and I've seen tires sold that are really for 14-3/4"D wheels (Jet?).
From your description of the tire bulging, it follows that the blade is compressing the tire to the wheel and the "slack" builds up along the blade-less bottom portion. Glue will lengthen the time it takes this to happen but eventually it will happen again. Could be a bum tire, if you swap top to bottom, do they both seem to take the same energy to install (rule out one tire being slightly bigger)?
My Rikon 10-325 is about 8 yrs old & primarily make band saw boxes - not a lot of usage. I started having the same problem last fall, put on new blades did not solve the problem. So I have been following this post. Like many others I do use the Sondgrass approach.
While I have not yet checked the tensioner (I am not mechanically inclined) I did notice my upper wheel will move ever so slight when pushing on the rim. But with tension, no movement. The bottom wheel does not move under the same conditions.
Would this have any impact?
For "grins" would it make any sense to switch the wheels (assuming they are the same)?
I do not mean to high jack Washam's post, but any thoughts sure would be appreciated.
Hey wncguy, when I was checking all the parts for defects, I noticed that the upper wheel shaft had a some play in all directions. I disassembled -only held in with a pin -and examined the end of the shaft that goes into the hinge. It looks like it was designed to have a little, maybe 1/32" "slop" and like you no play under tension so don't think that's you problem. I think we both have a loose tire problem. Not sure what type of tire you have but my problem improved minimally when I reversed the tires top to bottom and turned the tires inside out. Additional inspection, as splintergroup suggested revealed that the wheels are slightly undersized (13 7/8" instead of 14) so that's another issue. Bottom line, pretty sure the tires have stretch just enough to cause the problem.
I plan to replace my tires but ran across an old post on another forum that described the problem we're having. The poster had the identical problem and said that someone had suggested using a urethane hairspray to glue the tires to the wheels. I've nerver heard of urethane hairspray and not sure I'd want to try it on my hair! The guy claimed that it worked like a charm and he hasn't had any problems in years. So if you or any other viewers know the brand name of a urethane hairspray, post it if possible so all can benefit. Also, someone else claimed that Gorilla glue is a urethane glue that has worked well in this application. I'm gonna try the Gorilla glue since I have some on hand and will post the results.
Sorry for the long post but wanted to answer your question and bring others up to date on the situation.
Had a urethane tire that was under width for wheel, and like to move slide side to side on upper wheel messing with tracking. Used 80 grit paper to roughen up the tire inner surface, and then plain old rubber cement from Walmart office supply section. No more movement. Sold the saw 5 years later, so not sure if it was permanent fix?
YMMV
PBWilson1970: Thanks, planned to use Gorilla Glue but discovered that you have to chisel, grind, or scrape the stuff off once it's cured. Decided use as a last resort b/4 new tires. Applied polyurethane to wheel and installed the tire. It's curing now and will post results. I noticed someone else had used shellac with good results after the fact!
CaptainKlutz: Rubber cement had crossed my mind but didn't think it would stick to urethane tires. Will give it a try if other efforts fail.
All: Have discovered that the urethane hair spray that some have used to secure tires is Free & Clear. It is available at Walgreens and others.
John - thanks for getting back to me.
Good to know you had some wheel movement too.
Again my saw is the Rikon 14" 10-325. Wheels are about the same dia as yours. My tires seem to be in great shape & tightly seated in the wheel groove. The lower wheel has a brush mounted to the frame to clean the tire. It had worn down and was making hardly contract with the tire, it's now re-positioned.
So I'll keep trying things & might do new tires anyway.
Louis Iturra has been a good resource for me & I'll see if he has any suggestions.
By the way I feel pretty silly publicly showing that I'm an idiot… I can't even blame it on having an adult beverage when I may the comment about switching wheels… what the hell was I thinking… the bottom wheel has the pulleys for the v belt.
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