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Forum topic by Jeremiah873 posted 07-09-2020 04:13 AM 612 views 1 time favorited 34 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jeremiah873

9 posts in 157 days


07-09-2020 04:13 AM

So here’s the thing…I just bought a house that has steam heat, so baseboard units.
My goal is to have the shop in the basement where the boiler is for the heating..and also the water heater. I CAN port outside.
The basement is connected to the garage also if that helps.
What are the concerns about gases and such I need to worry about. I am confused as to what the negative effects of running a shop indoors …besides dust are. I’m used to working out of a garage but now I want to come indoors.
I was thinking a 2hp blower that ports everything outdoors.
Thanks guys


34 replies so far

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

3316 posts in 2294 days


#1 posted 07-09-2020 05:31 AM

This is huge topic.

Making your dust collector vent outdoors will require you to have sufficient intake vents to replace the air lost.

Gas appliances have same requirements. There has to be fresh air vents to replace the combusted air exhausted up the stack.

Having both types of appliances in same space will require careful engineering to ensure your make up air flow is enough to satisfy all the appliances turned on at same time. The challenge with a large fresh air intake for many appliances is you waste energy on HVAC conditioning of the make up air.

In can be more economical from energy usage view to use a HEPA grade dust collector that is vented into same space as wood working area where the air taken from. But the initial investment for better dust collector and local air filtration at sanding station will be much higher.

There are ton of factors that lead to the ‘best’ decision for either venting method.
Without knowing a whole lot more about your; space, tools, weather, living space to work space air containment, existing fresh air venting, etc, etc; it is very hard to recommend one over the other.

I had a basement shop once. I choose to use cartridge filter dust collector (hepa wood working dust collectors didn’t exist way back then), and 2 local hepa circulation filters mounted to the ceiling; as replacing the fresh air with external venting was not practical. I still had dust intrusion into home if I made mistake of leaving basement door open. YMMV

PS – Also need to learn to keep dusty clothes in basement, and not drag it upstairs into house at end of day. I used to vacuum my clothes to avoid need to run naked through house. lol

Best Luck deciding this dilemma.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View MPython's profile

MPython

270 posts in 612 days


#2 posted 07-09-2020 10:25 AM

I have a ClearVue CV1800 cyclone in my basement shop with Wynn filters. The filtered air vents back onto the work area, not outside. My gas furnace and my gas water heater are also in my basement, but not in the immediate shop area. There are two HVAC ducts in the shop, but no return. I’ve never had a problem with shop odors (solvents, etc.) or fine wood dust in the living quarters of the house.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6301 posts in 3293 days


#3 posted 07-09-2020 10:28 AM

Consider not venting out, but instead use filters to put the air back into the basement. Solves several problems, and may be a lot easier to do.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Jeremiah873's profile

Jeremiah873

9 posts in 157 days


#4 posted 07-09-2020 11:01 AM

Thanks .. Im starting to understand it.
If I was to port outside let’s say. . By keeping other smaller windows open in the basement …would this be enough airflow back in? Or would I need a small fan in the window to push air back in. There are multiple windows I think 4 total ..about 1.5ft x2ft windows.
I keep reading guys who just crack doors and windows in their basements and say they are completely fine…but that’s why I’m here…asking. The basement is only around 500 square foot. I can also keep the door to the garage cracked if needed.
The garage is heated also by the steam baseboards.
There is no door from the basement to the house other than walking through the garage…it’s a weird setup. I am in northeast ohio so winters can be cold.
The tools I run…one at a time…are 14”bandsaw, 12” planer, 6” jointer, router,drum sander and miter saw…the basics.
I make picture frames and don’t really run them for hours and hours non stop…maybe tops 30 min…then off to another tool.
My woman and I just don’t want to spend tons of cash on a DC like everyone else..and since there are windows we’d like to utilize it.
Also..let’s say i do port outdoors ..would it be better to keep the actual blower outside as well?
Two of the basement windows face under the giant porch. So I was thinking placing the DC outside under the porch…which will never get wet since the porch is essentially attached the the house..basically a three seasons room thats off the ground with ample crawl room to go under.
The cons are noise but I’m on an acre and it being under a porch I doubt noise will be a factor. I’m thinking a simple 2hp blower i.e. HF,Grizz,Jet….
Are there benefits from the blower being outside compared to inside ?
Sorry if I’m all over the place
Thanks all for the replies

View Sawdust2012's profile

Sawdust2012

230 posts in 2512 days


#5 posted 07-09-2020 11:47 AM

I’ve had the same conversation with myself many times over a DC and several other issues in my shop or around the house. I’ll risk sounding like a bloviating know-it-all to say that every time I have tried to work around something or make up for some engineering rule I was dancing around, I have regretted it. Conversely, every time I have gone ahead and spent the money on a good, albeit more expensive solution, I have been glad I did. All I know about this is that if you don’t do it correctly, you get a lot of Carbon Monoxide in the house. Unless you are facing life in prison, this is not a good thing. Even then, it depends on the prison, but overall it’s one of those situations where I don’t want to rely on my expertise. I’ve heard of situation where the pilot light goes out, which brings all sorts of fun. If it were me, I’d have to check that every time I left the shop because I have enough to worry about already. A 1.5 Horse DC with a cyclone and a Winn filter will cost some money, but 6 months down the road, you’ll be glad you set it up correctly. If you watch CL closely, and check the boards at the local wood supply store, someone will sell a good DC soon enough.

View hairy's profile

hairy

3083 posts in 4331 days


#6 posted 07-09-2020 03:21 PM

I have a basement shop. I use a Powermatic 1300 dust collector with a Super Dust Deputy cyclone. I also use a Powermatic 1200 air filter and a homemade air filter.

I don’t get dust upstairs in the house. It takes effort to clean up as I go. The lathe is the worst offender. When I make a mess, I clean it up before doing something. It works for me…

-- Genghis Khan and his brother Don, couldn't keep on keeping on...

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jonah

2123 posts in 4098 days


#7 posted 07-09-2020 03:29 PM

You simply cannot vent a dust collector outside in the winter under most circumstances. You will need so much make-up air that the shop will probably be 40-50 degrees, if that.

That will negatively impact the efficiency of your boiler and the forced hot water (it doesn’t sound like steam, it sounds like forced hot water, which is different) system.

Look into a quality dust collector with a good filter that you can vent into the basement. Size the system so you can capture 99% of the dust at the source, then add an air cleaner (inexpensive is okay, look at the Wen one) to get the last of the dust out of the air.

Dust won’t really impact your heating system unless you make a ton of it and don’t collect it.

View Jeremiah873's profile

Jeremiah873

9 posts in 157 days


#8 posted 07-09-2020 03:35 PM

Thanks everybody for the replies.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6301 posts in 3293 days


#9 posted 07-09-2020 04:32 PM


My woman and I just don t want to spend tons of cash on a DC like everyone else..and since there are windows we d like to utilize it.

- Jeremiah873

Just a comment: one reason folks wind up spending “tons of cash” on DC is the try to start off without spending money, and then realize the only way to a successful set up is to invest at least some money in a workable system. I’m not criticizing the budget approach, just be aware you will need to spend something and it’s usually cheaper to start out with something that works from the beginning. It may be hard to spend money on something that doesn’t actually do something to the wood, but it’s one of the more important expenditures (IMHO) in a shop.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Bill1974's profile

Bill1974

139 posts in 3784 days


#10 posted 07-09-2020 04:50 PM

Venting outside is risky at best in you case. it could be done, but it will take either a lot of discipline or probably as much as a decent dust collector and filter to not need discipline.

On cold days venting outside will likely make feel like you are outside in short order.

Make sure to service your boiler and water heater regularly and try to keep dust from causing a hazard with them. It does not take much dust to mess up the air inlets, heat exchangers and other parts.

May want to look in to putting up some walls around the boiler and water heats and having vents that pull though HVAC filters to protect them. Again not something to taken lightly may want to have a professional okay it before doing it.

A shopvac and maybe some minor dust collection mods to you tools will get you a long way to catching the dust. An inexpensive dust collector with a filter will better.

If venting outside is the only option, get yourself a manometer and make sure the air pressure by your boiler and water heater is the same as outside the house. And also make sure carbon monoxide are in use you home and in the shop area.

View controlfreak's profile

controlfreak

907 posts in 401 days


#11 posted 07-09-2020 05:07 PM

I have a small shop (10’x16’) and insulated this year. I have added a wall mounted window unit leave it on “Dry” during the week and crank it low on the weekends. I use large a shop vac with bag and filter with a pre- cyclone to catch the major stuff. It works well when I remember to move the hose to the proper tool, I hate getting halfway through a cut and then seeing the dust plume. Anyway my observation is that with my air conditioner being only slightly more than the minimum required I am amazed how quickly the temperature increases while in use. Until I get more space I am switching to more hand tool work including hand sawing my boards. I guess I need the exercise anyway. Not getting rid of my power tools just yet though.

View 23tony's profile

23tony

40 posts in 969 days


#12 posted 07-09-2020 05:48 PM


Just a comment: one reason folks wind up spending “tons of cash” on DC is the try to start off without spending money, and then realize the only way to a successful set up is to invest at least some money in a workable system. I m not criticizing the budget approach, just be aware you will need to spend something and it s usually cheaper to start out with something that works from the beginning. It may be hard to spend money on something that doesn t actually do something to the wood, but it s one of the more important expenditures (IMHO) in a shop.

- Fred Hargis

I kinda found the same thing, but fortunately my wife short-circuited this by getting me a dust collection system for Christmas a couple years back.

So far the only thing I have it permanently connected to is the table saw, but the dust reduction just from that is incredible. I’ll be hooking up more as I have the chance (and as I replace some old tools).

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1731 posts in 3592 days


#13 posted 07-09-2020 06:06 PM

CO, CO, CO. Venting outside will bring CO down the chimney and into the house. You will lose heat, but that will not kill you. CO does. I had blocked attic vents caused by cottonwood seed lint. The attic fan pulled air down three stories, out the boiler, and back up to the fan. And an attic fan does not move near the air that a DC does. Without CO detectors, myself and my family would be DEAD!!! Spend the money on a good DC, because if the CO doesn’t get you, the fine dust will.

View Picken5's profile

Picken5

314 posts in 3491 days


#14 posted 07-09-2020 08:44 PM

I have basement shop. It’s about 550 square feet. I use a Laguna 2HP Mobile Cyclone Dust Collector along with a shop vac with a dust deputy. None of it is vented outside. If I keep the door shut, I’ve not had any issues with dust elsewhere in our house.

-- Howard - "Time spent making sawdust is not deducted from one's lifetime." - old Scottish proverb

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

1450 posts in 1387 days


#15 posted 07-09-2020 08:59 PM

Exhausting 1000+ CFM to the outside will negatively pressure the house possibly causing the furnace vent to become an intake, venting carbon monoxide into the soon-to-be-un-living space.

COx is not healthy indoors. This may be a fatally bad idea. Talk to a HVAC pro.

You can easily test air infiltration/infiltration with a smoke bomb or smoky candle. Set up next to the furnace and kick on the DC and see (literally) which way the wind blows. A spider web on a twig is very sensitive to air flow.

-- The hump with the stump and the pump!

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