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Needing input on a (used) table saw.

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Forum topic by wootyay posted 06-24-2020 08:20 PM 492 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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wootyay

6 posts in 206 days


06-24-2020 08:20 PM

Hey all,

I’m new to woodworking and found this site, maybe a month ago, and have found it useful and I’m trying to learn as much as I can. I started woodworking as a hobby and my shop space is roughly equal to a one car garage. The garage is only wired for 120v currently and I’m not sure I’d want to pay to have 240v added at this time.

I had an older job site style Ryobi table saw and it had a tough time ripping 2×4s, so I sold that and am looking for a contractor or hybrid style saw now. I’d need the saw to have a mobile base, either buying a base or having a mobile base as part of the saw, as I’ll need to move it around due to the space in the garage. I’d be looking to spend less than $1300. I’ve read several threads discussing situations similar to mine and comparing the Delta 36-725, Grizzly 0771z among others.

If I go the route of purchasing a new saw I’d probably get the Grizzly 0771z (or ShopFox W1837), as they’re roughly the same price.

I originally was going to post asking for thoughts about this saw/price, on CL, but wanted to give other info as it may help clarify my situation. Sorry for any repetitiveness that’s been covered in other threads. PM64 that seems to be in good shape w/ a few accessories.

https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/shawnee-powermatic-table-saw/7145262192.html

From what I’ve read here, a used Unisaw would be a really good option too. I’m just not sure what I should be expecting for prices on a decent used Unisaw, PM. There’s no harm in getting a saw that’s probably more than I need at the moment, right?! :P

Any feedback is appreciated, thank you!


11 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

8350 posts in 3165 days


#1 posted 06-24-2020 09:02 PM

First mistake was selling your old saw. It may have been inadequate in several ways, but at least you had something to use while you looked for a replacement. Now you have squat, and that “Gotta have it now” feeling will keep trying to bite you in the ass.

Second mistake is not knowing what you want. Figure it out. Once you know, then you will be able to jump on a good deal when it comes along without making your third mistake.

Third mistake, asking if it’s a good deal. If it is a great deal, then you will 99 times out of 100 miss the deal because of your hesitation. Read the OWWM rules – particularly #5 – they exist for a reason.

And finally – that PM is overpriced for a contractor saw. It is in nice shape, but you can find nice used cabinet saws for that price most any day. And if you do want a cabinet saw (Unisaw, PM66, etc..) then you are most likely going to need 240v. You may run across a 1.5 or 2hp Unisaw, but they are fairly rare, so you will most likely have to wait longer for one to show up.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

2037 posts in 1554 days


#2 posted 06-24-2020 09:13 PM

220 breaker and outlet isn’t hard to add as long as your panel has two adjacent open slots. Figure on about $100 in materials including:

  • 220V breaker
  • 12/2 with ground wire, length is distance from panel to saw + 15’
  • Cable clamps, conduit & mounts
  • Metal box, NEMA 6-20 outlet, cover

At panel:
Bare ground to ground buss bar
Black and white to each side of breaker

At outlet:
Bare ground to ground on socket
Black to L1
White to L2

-- The hump with the stump and the pump!

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

3981 posts in 2460 days


#3 posted 06-25-2020 12:48 AM

Welcome to LumberJocks!


First mistake was selling your old saw. It may have been inadequate in several ways, but at least you had something to use while you looked for a replacement. Now you have squat, and that “Gotta have it now” feeling will keep trying to bite you in the ass.

Second mistake is not knowing what you want. Figure it out. Once you know, then you will be able to jump on a good deal when it comes along without making your third mistake.

Third mistake, asking if it s a good deal. If it is a great deal, then you will 99 times out of 100 miss the deal because of your hesitation. Read the OWWM rules – particularly #5 – they exist for a reason.

And finally – that PM is overpriced for a contractor saw. It is in nice shape, but you can find nice used cabinet saws for that price most any day. And if you do want a cabinet saw (Unisaw, PM66, etc..) then you are most likely going to need 240v. You may run across a 1.5 or 2hp Unisaw, but they are fairly rare, so you will most likely have to wait longer for one to show up.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

+1

IMHO – paying more than $300-400 for used 120v contractor saw is too much; unless maybe it’s loaded with accessories or NIB. The common issue with souped up contractor saw is there is price ceiling for these tools based on competitive options. Doesn’t matter if it is a new hybrid for $800-1000, New contractor saw for $600, or used cabinet saw for $500-1000; spending more than ~$500-600 on contractor saw becomes difficult compared to what you can buy for same amount of money.

My suggestion for 120V used TS is to look for an old pre-70’s Unisaw with RI/Bullet motors. Will handle 8/4 lumber with ease, and old school version of home shop TS. The motors are rated only 1 to 1.5HP, but have torque of much larger motor. They use the same design that a 3HP rated router uses, yet only draws 15A @ 120V. They have more power than modern induction motor on newer saw using same 120v.

If you have plans to be in Phoenix, I just happen to have one laying around, waiting for restoration you can buy? Runs/works fine. Has been in storage for 15 years when I found it, and to be safe bearings should be replaced. Otherwise it has been pampered all it’s life. Even have a spare mobile base for it too.

Finding use wood working tools can be hard work. Here is blog post I wrote on my considerations for used tool prices that might help: https://www.lumberjocks.com/CaptainKlutz/blog/129795

Best Luck!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View wootyay's profile

wootyay

6 posts in 206 days


#4 posted 06-25-2020 02:15 AM

I sold the TS because I figured I could still get by with my jigsaw, miter saw and circ saw. Time will tell if it bites me in the ass or not. Hopefully it won’t be too long until I have one again.

Thanks for the input and link to the rules, MrUnix, I’ll keep those in mind.

Madmark, I don’t have any open slots in the panel, which only adds to the issue.

CaptainKlutz, thanks for the info on pricing and reading the blog gives me a basis on judging whether the tool is a good deal or not.

Thanks again!

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5975 posts in 4209 days


#5 posted 06-25-2020 06:02 PM

Unless you eat, sleep, think tools every day, the average woodworker does not have the experience to recognize a good deal in a used tool. Being able to recognize a good deal and act on it right away without hesitation is the key to getting what you want and be happy with it. For those less experienced, you may have to depend on the advise of others, but make sure those advise givers have the experience to render good advise.

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1073 posts in 2615 days


#6 posted 06-25-2020 06:47 PM

A bunch of topics:

Biggest problem with saws being under-powered is the wrong blade. Combo blades are terrible at ripping.
I run a Ridgid 1 3/4 contractor saw and when I put the 24 tooth Diablo on, no more problems. I can rip 3 inch oak. Before I could not rip a 2×4. I use a 60 tooth crosscut. They work well enough I don’t have the excuse for a 3 HP cabinet saw. I want one, just don’t need it. ( You have not filled out your profile, so we don’t know where you are. For the right incentive, I would sell my Ridged so I could buy the Harvey. )

You have 110, but is it a 20A circuit? That is what is needed for 1 3/4 contractor.

Used means older, which means probably no riving knife. That is by far the biggest most important safety feature
besides your brain.

All the ” available dime a dozen” stuff depends on where you live. Around here, decent tools sell word of mouth here long before Craigs list or any forum. Even with all the unemployed over-leveraged folks, nothing on the market.

Putting wheels on something is easy.

Fences are where cheaper saws cut corners.

Old Unisaws were the class of the field, but no riving knife. Have you looked new at Laguna or Harvey?

Anything smaller than a full blown contractor scares me to death. I won’t use a job-site portable.

What are you going to do about dust collection? Unless outside on a windy day, you will have fines in the air. Blades may cut off a couple fingers but dust takes out a couple lungs. I would not be happy with a missing finger, but missing lungs are a whole different problem.

Woodworking is expensive, takes power, space, and money. If you can’t do it right, build your skills with hand tools. They worked fine for about 6000 years.

View wootyay's profile

wootyay

6 posts in 206 days


#7 posted 06-25-2020 07:56 PM

Yep, 20A circuit.

I have looked at the F1 and briefly at the Harvey C200 , after reading another thread in which you (?) posted about them. I mentioned Griz/Shop Fox originally because there seem to be more people, in the threads I’ve read, who had overall positive feedback about Grizz. Not sure if that’s due to the quantity sold over other brands or what.

I’d have to look into some DC system once I get the TS. As of now I just wear a mask.

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

2167 posts in 3149 days


#8 posted 06-25-2020 08:06 PM

If you take a little bit to scour Craigslist/FB Marketplace/Nextdoor you can pretty easily find a Unisaw or Powermatic 66 for well less than $1300. They’re better saws than the new ones, in my opinion.

Regardless of the saw, with 120V you’re limited on the HP of the saw, and would need the have a dedicated circuit for a 120V 2HP saw, since you’d be potentially maxing out the amperage of the circuit when the saw is drawing maximum power.

If you’re going to for a solid contractor type saw, used Deltas are a much better deal than the Powermatic 64 you are looking at. The range here is $100-300, and the upper range of that includes a good fence and cast iron extension wings and a mobile base. They’re not cabinet saws, but a well tuned, heavy contractor saw with a 1.5 HP motor can work very well.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

8350 posts in 3165 days


#9 posted 06-25-2020 08:40 PM

Unless you eat, sleep, think tools every day, the average woodworker does not have the experience to recognize a good deal in a used tool.
- MrRon

I think it is entirely possible – but takes patience. If you watch CL casually for a while, even just like a quick scan over morning coffee each day, you will get a feel for the going price of various machines, what is high, what seems low, etc… But it does take some time, which is why it’s better to have an inferior machine that is usable while you keep your eye out, rather than no machine at all, which makes you want to get something – sometimes ANYTHING to fill that void. In that situation, you can find yourself wanting to jump on the first thing that even smells like a good deal, even if it isn’t all that great (or maybe not good at all!). Seen it happen hundreds of times.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1073 posts in 2615 days


#10 posted 06-25-2020 10:38 PM

Yes, Few reviews on Harvey as they did not market under their name until recently. They have been one of the suppliers of Grizzly and SawStop among others. About 4 companies build them all. They are one of the actual manufactures.

View Jim2020's profile

Jim2020

16 posts in 204 days


#11 posted 06-26-2020 03:26 PM

What’s driving your decision? Modern features, or 120v power. If it’s 120v power, then look for a old Delta Unisaw. the 120v bullet motors draw a amazingly low current. You’ll probably have to fit it with a good fence, no riving knife and poor guard, but a really good platform to work with. I recently bought one off e-bay at a low price, rebuilt it, and now have a great saw. I don’t have a guard, and I don’t have a riving knife, but I’ve got along without them for 3 decades on a Craftsman contractor saw, and don’t intend on trying to fit them to my Unisaw.

If in the future you want “more” saw, just upgrade the Unisaw you already have. Bigger motor, dust collection, etc. The design of these saw was outstanding, there are parts galore, and when you’re done, you have a great tool. Jim

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