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"Like-new" 1960s unisaw

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Forum topic by SpringHalo posted 04-30-2020 01:18 PM 665 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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SpringHalo

5 posts in 313 days


04-30-2020 01:18 PM

Topic tags/keywords: rockwell unisaw used fence

I’ve been looking at used table saws for a month now and read many posts here about every table saw imaginable. I found a listing for an older unisaw that looks to be in great condition, but the price is way above typical old unisaws, so I thought I’d get opinions for this particular case: what is this saw worth?

Motor is labeled 83-651, 115V/20A 2HP “Rockwell Manufacturing Company”
Saw is labeled 34-450
Also comes with a NIB Vega 40P fence

Seller has replaced belts and bearings, looks to be a new paint job as well.


14 replies so far

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4187 posts in 2511 days


#1 posted 04-30-2020 02:18 PM

Some sites like OWWM don’t allow pricing discussions on used tools. It can be quagmire of dissent.
Fortunately LJ does not have same rule.

Here is my opinion on used tool pricing:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/CaptainKlutz/blog/129795

Have rebuilt a couple Unisaw.
Generally speaking, It is really easy to spend more on replacement parts than market will pay for Unisaw.

- Interesting paint job? If the color scheme fits your shop, then maybe it was painted for you? lol
Wouldn’t not be my first choice of color.

- The 2HP motor is a strange beast. Technically it requires a 30A 120v circuit. Can work OK on 20A circuit with short distance to panel, but tends to trip breaker at start up occasionally. Breakers are not meant to trip often, so after 20-30 trips they wear out and trip every time with large load. Becomes a big nuance. It you don’t already have 30A circuit, and need to add one: will learn it is cheaper to install a 15-20A 240v circuit, and rewire motor for 240v. The 2HP 30A circuit issues tends to lower the value, as the saw has similar 240v power requirement in shop as larger 3HP saw. If you need to have a 120v saw in shop, then look for Unisaw with the older Bullet style 1.5HP RI type motors.

- Don’t see a blade guard or disappearing splitter? That knocks off $100 in my price sheet.
Will not personally use a Unisaw without one or the the other. Kick back is no joke, and avoiding it is easy with splitter.

- Has holes for motor cover, but it is not included. They were optional. But you need one if you have any hope of proper dust collection. That is another subtraction in value.

- The NIB Vega fence adds some value, but still have to worry about age of fence and lack of warranty.

A saw similar to that one, but with motor cover, splitter, and Biesemeyer fence; was listed/sold for $950 on my local CL (and LJ) recently. Be surprised if did not actually sell for slightly less than listing. :) I sold a refurbished 3HP Unisaw in same price range last year.

If you want see more Unisaw for sale check out the classifieds on OWWM.org site.

Best Luck in hunt for table saw.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View KelleyCrafts's profile

KelleyCrafts

4414 posts in 1756 days


#2 posted 04-30-2020 02:23 PM

Your local $950 sold for $950 Klutz, actually $1150 as I sold him some sleds and jigs I had for it as well. I decided to just hold out and it paid off. I think I had it listed for three weeks total though. Was an excellent saw for me, will be for him as well for many years to come.

-- Dave - http://kelleycrafts.com/ - pen blanks - knife scales - turning tools

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

8311 posts in 1729 days


#3 posted 04-30-2020 02:47 PM

beautiful saw GRATZ :<))

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN :<))

View ruger's profile

ruger

142 posts in 1112 days


#4 posted 04-30-2020 02:53 PM

For me in this economy, wouldn’t pay more than 600 dollars for it. people are going to be unloading a lot of tools and toys to raise cash shortly. I paid 300 for my unisaw 3 years ago.

View SpringHalo's profile

SpringHalo

5 posts in 313 days


#5 posted 04-30-2020 03:06 PM


Generally speaking, It is really easy to spend more on replacement parts than market will pay for Unisaw.

That’s what I figured happened with this one. The person put more work into it than it was worth.


- The 2HP motor is a strange beast. Technically it requires a 30A 120v circuit. Can work OK on 20A circuit with short distance to panel, but tends to trip breaker at start up occasionally. Breakers are not meant to trip often, so after 20-30 trips they wear out and trip every time with large load. Becomes a big nuance. It you don t already have 30A circuit, and need to add one: will learn it is cheaper to install a 15-20A 240v circuit, and rewire motor for 240v. The 2HP 30A circuit issues tends to lower the value, as the saw has similar 240v power requirement in shop as larger 3HP saw. If you need to have a 120v saw in shop, then look for Unisaw with the older Bullet style 1.5HP RI type motors.

Thanks for the warning about the 30A circuit. I assumed a dedicated 20A would be sufficient. I’m currently renting and am in discussions with the landlord about adding 2 more 20A circuits, but I’m doubtful they’ll let me add a 240V outlet.

- Don t see a blade guard or disappearing splitter? That knocks off $100 in my price sheet.
Will not personally use a Unisaw without one or the the other. Kick back is no joke, and avoiding it is easy with splitter.

- Has holes for motor cover, but it is not included. They were optional. But you need one if you have any hope of proper dust collection. That is another subtraction in value.

- The NIB Vega fence adds some value, but still have to worry about age of fence and lack of warranty.

A saw similar to that one, but with motor cover, splitter, and Biesemeyer fence; was listed/sold for $950 on my local CL (and LJ) recently. Be surprised if did not actually sell for slightly less than listing. :) I sold a refurbished 3HP Unisaw in same price range last year.

These are all good concerns and really cut through the “shiny new paintjob” appeal of the machine. The current asking price is $1400, and it’s unlikely that they’d be willing to accept the roughly $700 that it seems this is worth. (Assuming splitter and dust cover are $250 extra) I guess I’ll continue to be patient, or get a cheaper saw until I get a proper shop with 240V.

Cheers

View ASTEC's profile

ASTEC

9 posts in 375 days


#6 posted 04-30-2020 03:26 PM

My neighbor has that exact saw (different color, gray). It runs well and he uses it daily. It has the original Delta round rail fence on it. I have a NIB Delta Unifence I tried to get him to take for it, but he says he is happy with his set up. Someone, somewhere needs a NIB Unifence. lol

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4187 posts in 2511 days


#7 posted 04-30-2020 03:35 PM

SpringHalo

Never be afraid to make a reasonable offer for used tool, all they can do is say no.
Especially if you have other used tool listings to use as pricing examples that you offer is comparable to local market prices.
There are some (crazy) folks that think it is good idea to ask double what they want, since many people make low ball offers. I believe exorbitant prices scare away many buyers unwilling to negotiate. They miss more opportunities to sell the tool. And it’s best to ask for what you want from sale. Ok, Maybe add $50 more, so can give something, and buyer feels like they got a little bargain. lol

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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SpringHalo

5 posts in 313 days


#8 posted 05-01-2020 01:24 AM


Best Luck.
- CaptainKlutz

Thanks for the luck: I caught a PM66 on craigslist an hour after it was posted. It’s a 3HP 3-phase with the 50” accufence. Serial number shows it’s from 1999 which is quite a bit more recent than this unisaw. The guy is asking $800 for the saw because he moved and his new place doesn’t have a garage.

My thoughts are to snatch this up tomorrow and install a Teco L510 VFD for $200, then temporarily swap saws with my old man, who can easily run a 240V line in his shop, then use his craftsman 152.221240 until I get a house of my own. Is $800 for a 20 year old PM66 pretty standard?

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4187 posts in 2511 days


#9 posted 05-01-2020 02:00 AM

Is $800 for a 20 year old PM66 pretty standard?
- SpringHalo

IMHO – Not an bad price. PM66 sell for more than similar Unisaw. Due left tilt and less sold into market. 3PH motors tend to drive prices down by cost of phase convertor, or take much longer time to sell. Single phase PM66 sell for $800-1000 in great condition in my area, if have luxury to wait. We always have at least one PM 66 floating around for $1300+? So I know what too expensive looks like, lol. If you can bring that one home for $800-900 with Teco 510, then you have price I might be willing to pay? :-)

Make sure it has blade guard or splitter assembly. PM doesn’t sell disappearing splitter upgrades the way Delta does for Unisaw. Beisemeyer made some third party splitters for PM66, and Shark guard is only other option. There are post on LJ with folks searching for them. :-) Not having splitter/guard has stopped me from buying a couple of PM TS as adding one can be expensive.

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View SpringHalo's profile

SpringHalo

5 posts in 313 days


#10 posted 05-01-2020 02:20 AM


IMHO – Not an bad price. PM66 sell for more than similar Unisaw. Due left tilt and less sold into market. 3PH motors tend to drive prices down by cost of phase convertor, or take much longer time to sell. Single phase PM66 sell for $800-1000 in great condition in my area, if have luxury to wait. We always have at least one PM 66 floating around for $1300+? So I know what too expensive looks like, lol. If you can bring that one home for $800-900 with Teco 510, then you have price I might be willing to pay? :-)

Make sure it has blade guard or splitter assembly. PM doesn t sell disappearing splitter upgrades the way Delta does for Unisaw. Beisemeyer made some third party splitters for PM66, and Shark guard is only other option. There are post on LJ with folks searching for them. :-) Not having splitter/guard has stopped me from buying a couple of PM TS as adding one can be expensive.

Cheers!

- CaptainKlutz

The Teco 510 would be a separate purchase. The current owner is using a PL-5 phase converter, which he might let go for cheap if I use the VFD option as leverage.

My thought is that I’ve only seen a couple of unisaws for $1000-1200 in the past 3 weeks and they quickly sold, so maybe my area has lower supply and thus higher demand and price.

I’ll check for the blade guard assembly when I look at it, but from the picture it looks like there’s an opening in the throat plate for one to be added.

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

8434 posts in 3216 days


#11 posted 05-01-2020 02:49 AM

The Teco 510 would be a separate purchase. The current owner is using a PL-5 phase converter, which he might let go for cheap if I use the VFD option as leverage.
- SpringHalo

The phase converter will reduce the actual HP of the motor by roughly 1/3rd, and cause it to run hotter than normal, which can lead to premature winding failure. I would avoid that option.

Based on the picture, and given that it is a 3 phase machine, $800 is on the very upper end of what it’s worth. By the time you add in the VFD, new bearings and belts, wiring, any missing parts like a splitter/guard, etc.. you will be into it for well over $1000. I’m sure that if you are patient, a much better deal will present itself. It’s usually when people get the “gotta have it now” bug that they wind up paying much more than they should.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

8434 posts in 3216 days


#12 posted 05-01-2020 02:49 AM

PS: Do you have any other pictures of the machine, such as from the front?

PSS: You don’t specify exactly where in the state you are, but Michigan is the center for old iron. I have seen tons of super deals come and go in that area. But they don’t hang around long.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View SpringHalo's profile

SpringHalo

5 posts in 313 days


#13 posted 05-01-2020 03:27 AM

I’m pretty sure it’s only static phase converters that reduce power since they run it on a single phase. the PL-5 is a 5HP rotary converter which spins a motor to generate a true third phase.

I’m in lower west michigan, and maybe I’m not looking in the right places? Facebook marketplace and craigslist are the main ones and I’m not seeing a lot around checking once or twice a day. Maybe it’s this predicament causing hobby stuff to increase in price? I’ll admit I’m fairly antsy on getting my shop up and running, and I’ve been looking for one for a month now. I’m not looking for a steal of a deal, just a good quality saw at a fair price compared to buying a new grizzly 1023 or similar souped-up hybrids.

More pictures are here: https://imgur.com/a/MLfm6Qh

Thanks for the input.

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

8434 posts in 3216 days


#14 posted 05-01-2020 04:05 AM

I’m pretty sure it s only static phase converters that reduce power since they run it on a single phase. the PL-5 is a 5HP rotary converter which spins a motor to generate a true third phase.
- SpringHalo

Ahhh… you are correct – I was incorrectly assuming it was a static converter, while it is in fact a RPC. In that case, the VFD would be a much better option IMO. The only real advantage to a RPC is if you have a shop full of 3 phase machines. Of course, YMMV. ;-)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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