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Coronavirus risks associated with N95 cool-flow valves

5K views 84 replies 26 participants last post by  stevejack 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm relatively new here (long-time viewer, recent member) and don't want to break any rules by posting a link to my YouTube channel, so if an admin wants to delete this and post something else as a replacement that's fine. I just figured a lot of woodworkers have these and should not misunderstand the level of protection they provide. In short, the cool-flow masks have a rubber flap that lets the air from your lungs flow out without being filtered by the N95 mask fabric, so they are inadequate for preventing the airborne transmission of the virus from sick people, and can actually increase risk by providing a false sense of security for those who don't know.

One of these masks is extremely dangerous


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#2 ·
That's how my P100 filters work inhale through the filter exhale through a small port. I'm not a mask scientist.
I do think it's not pushing air out in the same fashion as a uncovered mouth.
The inside of my mask get pretty wet but at least it can be cleaned because it's rubber.
So far I haven't worn mine out in public

Good Luck
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
Please go to

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

Please read everything there about "Respirators"

PM me if after doing that you cannot see that a "respirator" marked as N95 doesn't offer the exact same protection, as any other labeled as N95, or for that matter P100, N100, whatever. All of them will block a particle 0.3 microns in size.

Then please go back to U tube, and post a correction. The news media is doing a fine job as is, spreading misinformation, and causing panic.

Thank you for your attention.

The world….....
 
#4 ·
Keep reading the page you linked down to "My N95 respirator has an exhalation valve, is that okay?", where the CDC confirms the exact point I made in the video:

"...However, respirators with exhalation valves should not be used in situations where a sterile field must be maintained (e.g., during an invasive procedure in an operating or procedure room) because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field."

Now ask yourself this question: If you were in a car, office, grocery store, doctor's office, or workshop with someone who was infected, and the exhalation flap was reversed so it only opened when you inhaled, would you feel comfortable with that? I'm just explaining something that should be common sense.

Please go to

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

Please read everything there about "Respirators"

PM me if after doing that you cannot see that a "respirator" marked as N95 doesn t offer the exact same protection, as any other labeled as N95, or for that matter P100, N100, whatever. All of them will block a particle 0.3 microns in size.

Then please go back to U tube, and post a correction. The news media is doing a fine job as is, spreading misinformation, and causing panic.

Thank you for your attention.

The world….....

- therealSteveN
 
#5 ·
Respirators with the exhalation valve are not going to filter exhaled air. A person that has corona or other illness should NOT use a mask with a valve, it will spread the disease. Only the inhaled air is filtered. Yes, the INCOMING air is filtered to the same level, but NOT the exhaled air.
 
#6 ·
Respirators with the exhalation valve are not going to filter exhaled air. A person that has corona or other illness should NOT use a mask with a valve, it will spread the disease. Only the inhaled air is filtered. Yes, the INCOMING air is filtered to the same level, but NOT the exhaled air.

- ibewjon
That seems right. If your purpose is to stop breathing in the virus, the valved mask is OK. If your purpose is to filter the air you are exhaling (to protect others, because you may be sick), then the valve is not OK.
 
#7 ·
I've only seen respirators being used by people not wanting to get the virus. People who are ill, need all the O2 they can get, if they aren't intubated already. Any mask, respirator, or even a towel wrapped around your head is going to increase your difficulty in breathing.

" because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field."

You probably should do some research on what a "sterile field" is, and when one would be working with one. It has absolutely no connection to a person wearing a respirator to keep from getting a virus.

Also look at the projections of the ARC a cough makes, and this might explain to you why they are suggesting 6 to 8 feet of space between people. Even Olympic level athletes cannot cough a straight line for more than around 2 feet, and none of them could make it dip, and then go upward to go into the vent of the respirator you don't like.

I think the only way that mask could be risky is if you wore it, and did handstands. I pretty much think if you are wearing a mask to keep from getting ill, handstands aren't on the list of things you want to be doing.
 
#10 ·
I believe this is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT. The reason advising everyone to wear a mask is the majority of carriers have no symptoms and do not know they have and can spread the virus. The mask greatly reduces the possibility they will spread the virus. I do not know the recommendation for those who are really sick at home or hospital.

Reducing your possible exposure is secondary and not very effective. You wear a mask to protect OTHERS. Wearing one to protect yourself is largely ineffective unless it is a full sealed face mask with powered forced air. If you have a cough, you have no business leaving your house for any reason. Period.

The vent on a mask can be blocked with a bit of tape. Unless you are exercising, you will have plenty of flow without it.

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A person that has corona or other illness should NOT use a mask
- ibewjon

That part is absolutely correct.

- therealSteveN
 
#11 ·
Adding to tvrgeek ´s comments. In Czech republic it was their approach that everyone in the entire country wear a mask, not to protect themselves individually, but the reverse; and they began very early on. This approach has led to that country having the lowest(I think) infection rate in Europe, and maybe worldwide. Of course, they also locked down the border early on as well, so that was also a factor.

I was also gonna suggest that the exhaust valve could be glued with some locktite, but tvrgeek ´s tape idea is good too.
 
#12 ·
I was not quoted completely in post 7. It should say " not wear a mask with the exhalation valve if a person is sick ". The problem I see on tv so often is people do not wear a mask correctly. Nose uncovered, metal strip not formed to face for a better seal, only one strap in use, and many other issues. For my job, I was mask and respirator fit many times, with training how to wear them. At a chemical or nuclear plant, you have to wear correctly, or be breathing chemicals or radioactive particles into your lungs.
 
#14 ·
Many people have a mild case and spread the virus before becoming ill enough for the hospital and oxygen. That is how this is spreading. And people who still believe it is a hoax. Now some preachers are saying a mask is a Muslim plot to take over the country. And the goofy churches that are packing religious services to help spread the virus as an Easter gift are not helping either.
 
#15 ·
I am the guy licensed, and certified to do the fitting. So I ll stick to my answers.

- therealSteveN
Steve what's your opinion on Sebo vacuum cleaner bags. I have a home made mask and I'm adding a layer of a sebo filter bag. My uneducated view is it's alot like a filter mask.
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I rather not open my p100 organic filter and wear to the grocery.
Thanks
 

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#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
Many people have a mild case and spread the virus before becoming ill enough for the hospital and oxygen. That is how this is spreading. And people who still believe it is a hoax. Now some preachers are saying a mask is a Muslim plot to take over the country. And the goofy churches that are packing religious services to help spread the virus as an Easter gift are not helping either.

- ibewjon
This is sorta funny. Here, we have many migrant workers from Morocco, and they were the first to be wearing masks, and there were more of them on average wearing masks than Spaniards. Now, it is about even, around 40% of everyone.
 
#17 ·
Many people have a mild case and spread the virus before becoming ill enough for the hospital and oxygen. That is how this is spreading. And people who still believe it is a hoax. Now some preachers are saying a mask is a Muslim plot to take over the country. And the goofy churches that are packing religious services to help spread the virus as an Easter gift are not helping either.

- ibewjon
This isn't what I am hearing, and or reading about. These people with a "mild case" as you say are still febrile. Anyone with a febrile illness needs to self quarantine. Of course if you have a fever from any form of illness, you have the illness, not some entry level illness. Unless you are saying they are only really sick if they are dead?

Haven't heard anything about any Muslim plots either. Exactly which news outlet are you getting your news from?
???
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
IMHO if I'm looking for advice on bandsaws I'd come here. If I'm looking for the best advice on a deadly virus pandemic I'd go to my physician or the CDC website. And by all means PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ignore the Muslim plot conspiracy theories. COVID could give a sh*t about your religion and is an equal opportunity killer.

Centers for Disease Control Corona Virus Info
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
I am the guy licensed, and certified to do the fitting. So I ll stick to my answers.

- therealSteveN

Steve what's your opinion on Sebo vacuum cleaner bags. I have a home made mask and I'm adding a layer of a sebo filter bag. My uneducated view is it's alot like a filter mask.
Sleeve Bag Font Wood Flooring

I rather not open my p100 organic filter and wear to the grocery.
Thanks

- Aj2
Not at all familiar with a Sebo vac bag as a mask. BUT health care workers all over the country are quite happy to get a home made mask, made of heavy enough fabric to block the spray from your average cough. Gross as it may sound that is what everyone is trying to avoid. The virus itself is sub particular by the standards I have read about, so even HEPA won't stop it, BUT the virus isn't atomized, dry, and free floating either. It's usually launched at you with a slew of splittle, mucous, and whatever, after someone hacks out a cough. So in reality a bandana would be a lot better than nothing at all. Sure better than an open mouth.

My Wife has been busy at the sewing machine making simple doubled cloth masks with elastic hoops to go over the ears. She got the pattern online, and has sewed up all she could make with the elastic she had on hand. Naturally all the elastic is gone from the sewing stores. In our neck of the woods every able bodied Woman, Man, and Child who can sew are making masks.

I have been scaring the little old Ladies with my mask that I go shopping with. It's only a half face, but I do have some P100's on it. I didn't want them to really freak with the full face and cartridge filters, looking all storm trooper and all. LMAO….

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Here are a few of a new fabric my Wife has made. I'm going to have her make me one of a solid color, so I don't look like a beach cabana. Double thick as they are, I wouldn't have any concern going out in public with one of these on. Whoever made this pattern, it's a pretty good design, and it can fit smaller Females, and I am 6' 2", 280, and it fits me too.

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#20 ·
Just saw this post and want to give some relevant information. In response to the OP, neither mask is dangerous in and of themselves, but they have different uses. When having an interaction with someone who is infected or presumed infected, I am trying to protect only myself, so the vented mask is going to do that. If I presume that I may be either infected or an asymptomatic carrier, then the vented mask is not adequate. When doing a procedure on a patient who is not infected, I am most concerned about maintaining a sterile environment and protecting the patient, but if I am intubating a patient who has the virus, then I am most interested in using the device that offers the most protection to myself. Because the best way for me to avoid giving this to someone else is to not contract the virus myself. So as I said to start with, both masks have appropriate uses, and because of the severe shortage right now, I have to consider using both types of mask in the appropriate circumstances. I am a hobby woodworker but my day job is Emergency Physician.
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
Food for thought no one talks about:

While N95's will not FULLY protect the wearer against viruses, any more than does a MERVE 11 filter for the heating and/or cooling system, they can help.

Picture hanging a Walmart bed sheet from the ceiling, filling your leaf blower with a cup of baking flour, standing directly in front of the sheet and pointing the blower at it, then turning it on. Only a minute fraction of the flour will go through. Even then, only because it was hurled at the sheet at high speed.

Now, do the same thing, with a new sheet, but hit the sheet at an angle. Anywhere the flour comes in contact with sheet material, it will be, for the most part, stopped.

Now, switch to a $300.00, high thread count sheet. The stopping power is increased.

Of course, it can be said it's the virus critters that get through that are the problem.

The latter aside, it must be remembered viruses are not little worm like creatures that will wiggle their way on through the mask to get at you.

The virus is about .1 to .3 microns, so even a few of our better dust collection filters and MERV 13 HVAC filters (don't swap your home filters out, it could destroy your blower motor and even damage the heat pump, if ice builds up because the system can't breath) would catch many or all of them.

Many of the virus critters will be hitchhikers on things that masks will catch.

Then there is the absurdity that was being pushed that only health workers needed masks, as if they, magically, worked for them, but not for anyone else. Not long after, I saw health workers switching from the absurd surgical masks (good for protecting people around the wearer, for the most part, and which should NEVER be found in a woodshop, sheetrock operation and so on) to N95's. Why? Anyway, I was mocked and ridiculed for saying N95s were better than common surgeons masks and suggesting they could help protect us, but look at us now.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/

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#25 ·
The CDC never said that Covid-19 positive pts. should not wear masks. In fact they say the opposite.
I repeat this virus is not airborne but droplet borne. There is a difference droplets do travel but not as far. they fall in an ark.
Valved masks are good for routine use for those who DON'T have the virus. they last longer.
 
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