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TS detail features, go, no-go on 3 HP cabinet saws

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Forum topic by tvrgeek posted 03-23-2020 01:32 PM 2760 views 0 times favorited 91 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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tvrgeek

2068 posts in 2806 days


03-23-2020 01:32 PM

Topic tags/keywords: tablesaw

Getting into the weeds. Online reviews are no help as it is pretty clear none of then ever even saw the saws they are reviewing. Does anyone have direct experience with the features I have gleaned?

The Grizzly GO690 /Shop Fox W1819 both have a thumbwheel release for the guard/knife. It would look like this would only be accessible with their steel insert and preclude DIY ZCIs. Otherwise, looks excellent.

THe G01023 looks good until you find out you have to crawl under the side and reach through a door to release the riving knife. Again, otherwise looks excellent and really budget friendly.

Laguna F3 almost had me until I figured out the front to the blade is only 8 inches. More modern design, looked great.

Jet Exacta looks very nice, but it says it is unique with 29 inch table depth. May not be a problem, maybe even good except I am planning on an iron router top insert. ( 27 inch standard) Otherwise, good looking saw.

G0651 claims to be very heavy duty, elite series, yet the parts diagram looks more like an entry level hybrid. If it is the tank they claim, then really nice.

I wish I could actually see/fiddle with these tools before I bought blindly. By owners manuals and parts diagrams, it kind of comes down to the Powermatic 2000/Baileigh or a SawStop Both really hard on the budget and may not be possible. The other side of the coin is to buy one with a feature you wind up to hate. The only one on the sales floors around here seems to be the SawStop. Most are all direct ship.

Of course, with all of them it seems to be a crap-shoot on the fence. Most some sort of Beis-style but are sure are not equal.


91 replies so far

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ibewjon

2535 posts in 3950 days


#1 posted 03-23-2020 02:51 PM

Does Leneave have anything to look at? Located in NC. If griz closed it’s showroom in PA, then a trip to Springfield, MO may be in your future. Call first to see what is on the floor.

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tvrgeek

2068 posts in 2806 days


#2 posted 03-23-2020 03:46 PM

They are a distributor, but do not know what is on the floor. Several hours away as I am up in the Piedmont. I watch their listing for used. Hey have a Powermatic, but 5 HP, 3 phase.

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EllenWoodHead

166 posts in 533 days


#3 posted 03-23-2020 03:53 PM

For me, usability hassles like inconvenient riving knife controls and no DIY inserts are deal-breakers. None of this is rocket science, don’t know why the basics are so often messed up.

I also yearn for the days of going to actual stores where you could try them out. Even the big box stores used to have good displays and clerks who occasionally knew things. I even remember the olden days when the Sears tool department was the best of all.

There are two pretty good local stores here, a Woodcraft and an independent, and they display only SawStop. I am not a SawStop fan because of their hostile marketing practices, and I’m not impressed by their weiner safety technology because it is destructive. Bosch’s Reaxx was simpler and not destructive, but SawStop killed it. The founders of SawStop are all patent attorneys.

A friend has a Powermatic 1000, which I love. All the adjustments are so lovely smooth and easy, even blade changes. If the 2000 is as nice it might be worth the price tag. Sorry I can’t help more.

-- "wood" and "good" rhyme, but not "food"

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Davevand

275 posts in 1993 days


#4 posted 03-23-2020 05:28 PM

I will second the Powermatic 1000, if I had 220v in my shop I would have bought the 2000. There is nothing about the saw I don’t like, everything work very well and very smooth.

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JackDuren

1629 posts in 2116 days


#5 posted 03-23-2020 05:49 PM

I’ve used the griz, powermatics, delta unisaws,etc. They all operate the same

Most people buy because they like the color. The fences worked fine for me on all three.

My saw is 20 years old and still does what it should. If I had to consider another saw it would be Sawstop. If you have to think twice about that then the features arent important and basically one doesnt know what you want…

Treat buying a saw like buying a car. Buy it,drive it for awhile and trade it in for another one.

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splinter56

8 posts in 2185 days


#6 posted 03-23-2020 05:53 PM

I have a G01023 and i can remove the riving knife by reaching through the table top when changing the blade. there is a simple cam-lock lever that is easily reached from the top. I’ve never had to crawl underneath the saw to get at the riving knife.

Zero clearance inserts are easy to make using the factory insert that shipped with the machine as template with a pattern bit on the router table. A slot for the riving knife needs to be milled/routed out in a second operation. I will make a batch of inserts from 9mm baltic birch plywood, and then add tapped holes for 6mm screws for leveling, also using the factory insert as a template.

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tvrgeek

2068 posts in 2806 days


#7 posted 03-23-2020 06:27 PM

We have a Woodcraft and a Kingspor’s down in the Triangle. Only SawStop on the floor. They did get a Laguna F1 in. Not even as robust an my Ridgid. I am looking for a real upgrade, which is why I mentioned 3 HP. I remember when Sears had tools, even when I bought my Ridgid they had big tools at HD and Lowes. Woodcraft says they sell about 6 SS a week, so I guess it is just not economical to have alternatives. If I was anything than a one-person hobbyist, the SS would be a no-brainer. I would not be surprised if insurance companies don;t require them. Configured equivalently to the other 3 HP jobs, the SS comes in at 3800. That is a long way from the GRizzly. Like the cost of a really nice bandsaw I would use more than the TS so the risk on the TS goes down.

Still waiting on feedback from those who said their 18 or 20 inch bandsaw does everything a 14 does but better. What does it do better? Just the feel of bigger and heavier? Is the width that convenient? I have narrowed my choice to Laguna or Laguna.

That is good to hear on the 1023 as the instructions show access through the right side trap door and I saw that as a complaint on one of the customer feedbacks. That makes it a budget winner as it would be under $1800 sitting in the shop ( shipping and tax) One has to risk Grizzly hit or miss quality, but as these all come out of the same factory, it can happen to any. Could we trouble you for a picture from the top seeing the lever? No hurry.

Jack, I must live on a different planet as I can neither afford to be swapping tools than I can be swapping cars. Must be why I drive a 2011 and a 98 or if the weather is good, my 65 B. Retired, negative income. I can only buy tools one last time. Very few newer used and 20 year old saws don’t have riving knives.

Most inserts are easy, but the 690 is a little different. Maybe you just drill another hole, but without seeing one, you don’t know. I have gone to add ing JB Weld in blobs and sanding it down so I get a nice tight snap-in fit. I can;t have my insert moving wien using MJ splitters even as much as the fency Leecraft insert with the screws adjusted.

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AndyJ1s

485 posts in 912 days


#8 posted 03-23-2020 07:05 PM

I’ll bet you could fashion a ZCI for the G0690 without too much trouble. You may have to route a mortise in the underside to clear the thumbwheel.

If you make a template(s), making successive ZCIs would be easier.

Among your stated options, this objection seems the easiest to overcome, and at considerably less cost than the PM or SS alternative.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

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JohnDon

168 posts in 2326 days


#9 posted 03-23-2020 07:36 PM

Caveat: I know practically nothing about any of these saws, other than what you’ve noted- great observations about details. That said, what struck me is the only downside of the Jet Exacta is that its depth is 29” instead of 27”. Seems to me that a 2” spacer would be an easy fix, or am I missing something?

View EllenWoodHead's profile

EllenWoodHead

166 posts in 533 days


#10 posted 03-23-2020 07:54 PM

Doesn’t the non-standard 29” table depth also rule out using third-party rip fences?

-- "wood" and "good" rhyme, but not "food"

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

2167 posts in 3340 days


#11 posted 03-23-2020 08:07 PM

I can’t necessarily keep up with all these tool threads, but if you’re honestly asking what a 17” or larger bandsaw does that a 14” doesn’t, it’s:
  • bigger throat and table
  • heavier wheels for more stability of the cut
  • less tension on the blade with larger wheels
  • capability of using wider blades
  • bigger HP motor

That might not be important if you’re doing curved work or work mostly with 3/4 to 8/4 rips, but for resawing and occasional milling it’s pretty critical. I’m not saying some 14” saws can’t resaw, just that the bigger saws do it with less fuss.

I have a 17” Grizzly with cast iron trunions, wheels, and table, and an electronic brake. It does everything I need from it. But I want to set up my old Craftsman tombstone 12” and leave a small blade on it for curved work.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

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AndyJ1s

485 posts in 912 days


#12 posted 03-23-2020 08:08 PM



Doesn t the non-standard 29” table depth also rule out using third-party rip fences?

- EllenWoodHead


Only if the fence uses a rear rail. Some do not (Unifence).

-- Andy - Arlington TX

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tvrgeek

2068 posts in 2806 days


#13 posted 03-23-2020 08:19 PM

It should not as most good fences are far longer than the table. Only our old crappy fences need to lock the far side rail. The rest overhang and only a friction button has to run on the rear rail, if it has one.

THe table depth of the Jet may not be a problem. A bit of 2×2 steel box might be a fix, but it may take some machining too. Unknown. That is the problem sight unseen. Unknown.

The weird thumbwheel lock may be manageable as is reported the side door access. Hard to put out a couple of grand and not know. Hard to return just because we don’t like it.

I think the comment that these useability features should no longer be an issue since we have been making table saws for a couple hundred years. But then again, the font on my allergy pill bottle is too small to read, don’t have a clue how to use most of my cell phone and many new cars have controls only someone too young to drive can figure out how to use. Touch screens, yet you are bouncing down the road. Maybe OK if it is a RR, but does not cut it in an econo-box. I should not have to pull off the road to change the thermostat!

Amazing, half the saws don’t even have a spindle lock yet. Only one puts the tilt on the front (unfortunately, owner feedback says no freaking way would I buy a Delta anything). Tilt DRO on a couple. Fence DRO on a couple. None in the consumer range have height DRO. Even slow braking is non-existent in the US. Only ONE saw I found publishes the specifications for runout and table flatness. ONE. So, if they send you a an iron spoon, their is no real recourse but they are asking us to send them $2000 or more on faith!

Someone mentioned saws are bought based on the paint color. I guess some are. If that is what is important to you, then you should not have something as dangerous as a table saw. Maybe I am missing something. Is there a market for them in pink? Have paint gun, may travel again in the future. :)


Doesn t the non-standard 29” table depth also rule out using third-party rip fences?

- EllenWoodHead


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tvrgeek

2068 posts in 2806 days


#14 posted 03-23-2020 08:27 PM

Thanks. The one point that is important to me is smoother. Hard to cur a tenon when the table is moving by half an inch. One spec of dust on a wheel and mine goes crazy. The more massive the wheels, the better I’ll like it. There is a lot of inertia difference between a 14 and 18 wheel. I like the bigger tables on some of them too.
I think you mean less stress on the blade, not less tension.


I can t necessarily keep up with all these tool threads, but if you re honestly asking what a 17” or larger bandsaw does that a 14” doesn t, it s: bigger throat and table heavier wheels for more stability of the cut less tension on the blade with larger wheels capability of using wider blades * bigger HP motor

That might not be important if you re doing curved work or work mostly with 3/4 to 8/4 rips, but for resawing and occasional milling it s pretty critical. I m not saying some 14” saws can t resaw, just that the bigger saws do it with less fuss.

I have a 17” Grizzly with cast iron trunions, wheels, and table, and an electronic brake. It does everything I need from it. But I want to set up my old Craftsman tombstone 12” and leave a small blade on it for curved work.

- shampeon


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shampeon

2167 posts in 3340 days


#15 posted 03-23-2020 09:28 PM


I think you mean less stress on the blade, not less tension.

Yeah, I should have been more clear, but it’s actually both. The larger wheels puts less stress on the blade as the radius is larger. But for e.g. resawing with a 3/4” blade, you will be putting a lot more force on the frame to get it up to tension on the 14”, if it can even handle that width of blade. It’s why a lot of folks with 14” bandsaws use 1/2” blades for resawing.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

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