LumberJocks

Baldor - Delta 83-651 wiring for 220V - cannot find diagram

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by kyngfish posted 03-08-2020 03:18 AM 958 views 0 times favorited 25 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


03-08-2020 03:18 AM

Trying to rewire my Unisaw for 220V, but the wiring diagram has rubbed off the motor plate.

It’s the 3HP baldor 83-6541 – I’ve found the manual for the tablesaw and it has nada, I can’t find the manual for the motor that shows wiring.

Sorry if this is redundant, I promise I searched ;)


25 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8216 posts in 3056 days


#1 posted 03-08-2020 04:10 AM

Note: I could find info for a 83-651 – but couldn’t find anything for 83-6541

AFAIK, and according to the specs I found for the 3hp Baldor 83-651 motor, it can only be run at 240v. What do you think it’s wired for now? Can you post a picture of the data plate even though you say it’s worn off?

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Table saw manual would not have any motor specific info, as there were too many motor combinations that could be shipped with the machine.

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


#2 posted 03-08-2020 04:23 AM

Yep. Fat fingers. The plate does show that it has a diagram for High and low voltage. 110 and 240 or 230 (not looking at the motor right now). But the diagram is rubbed off. It has been running on 110. I think it’s the same as the one shown here but I don’t understand the solution.

https://www.justanswer.com/electrical/1gxc2-need-wiring-diagram-rockwell-83-651-motor.html

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8216 posts in 3056 days


#3 posted 03-08-2020 06:12 AM

The plate does show that it has a diagram for High and low voltage. 110 and 240 or 230 (not looking at the motor right now). But the diagram is rubbed off. It has been running on 110.
- kyngfish

Wow… that would need a huge 120v circuit. Where have you been running it and what size breaker/wire are you using?

But now you see the problem, and why they don’t including wiring info in the manual. The Baldor I linked to was 240v only. The discussion you linked to had the same model number but stated it was dual voltage. As long as the rating (hp) and tilt (left or right) is the same, multiple motors, even by different manufacturers, could have the same model number. Post some pictures of the data plate and what you have at the wiring box on the motor.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

3615 posts in 2351 days


#4 posted 03-08-2020 10:17 AM

+1 A Very unusual power configuration!
A 3HP motor draws well over 30A inrush on 120v circuit. Would need a 40A circuit? Wow..

FWIW – I can find 83-651 with both single and dual voltage name plates via Google images? Appears they made both configurations, or maybe they are same, and it is just label?

You can figure out if you have a dual voltage induction motor via inspection of wiring connections to internal coils. Standard dual voltage induction motor will have 6+ wires inside the wiring box. Single voltage will ‘hide’ unnecessary connections and only have 2-4 wires (depends on external capacitor wiring).

If you find 6 wire dual voltage motor; most use the same general wiring diagram(s).
In simplistic terms; with low voltage the coils are in parallel and high voltage they are wired in series. :-)

While inspecting the wires make note of any wire colors, as there is a NEMA standard for induction motor termination points . On most old motors the colors are very hard to see, as plastic turns brown due extended heat aging inside the motor. If you can determine the colors, it becomes very easy to rewire the motor.

Rather than post a confusing diagram that may or may not be right; will share this overview page on induction motors to help you figure out type of motor, and how to rewire if possible:
https://www.industrial-electronics.com/elecy4_22.html
Wiring diagrams start about illustration #5

If you need more example images of ‘dual voltage induction motor wiring’, they are easy to find via any search engine. I find many useful motor wiring images for old wood working tools on OWWM.org or Practical Machinist sites. Rewiring old used tools is constantly discussed on those forums.

Hope this helps.
Best Luck!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


#5 posted 03-08-2020 03:40 PM

Thanks. I’ll post pictures a little later in the morning. With respect to running at 115 it just pulls 20 amps or so on startup so I run it on the circuit for my laundry and it works fine. Not sure if that means the motor is running at a lower power or what. Electrical isn’t really something I’ve educated myself on. Maybe it’s time.

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


#6 posted 03-08-2020 04:33 PM

So if I’m reading this correctly. The change should essentially be changing the leads from 3 wires at the 240 power and ground to 2 wires where the third wire (second winding) grabs power from the first winding instead. Not sure if that’s clear.

I think my wires still have colors and numbers. Will post shortly.

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


#7 posted 03-08-2020 04:44 PM

So I see wires labeled 1,2,3,4,5 and 8. Two don’t seem to be labeled. Then there’s a green wire that sort of loops in and connects back in to the motor. A ground?

View clagwell's profile

clagwell

294 posts in 649 days


#8 posted 03-08-2020 05:15 PM

It looks to me like your motor is already wired for 240V operation. The switch is another story.

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


#9 posted 03-08-2020 06:24 PM

I think for the switch I just need to move the spade at 110 to the 230 spade. If I try this and turn it on will I kill anything?

View clagwell's profile

clagwell

294 posts in 649 days


#10 posted 03-08-2020 06:32 PM

What’s your breaker rating?

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


#11 posted 03-08-2020 07:00 PM

2 pole 20 amp 250 (20 amps on each pole)

But with respect to breaking anything I’m more concerned with the table saw/motor/switch

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8216 posts in 3056 days


#12 posted 03-08-2020 07:07 PM

With respect to running at 115 it just pulls 20 amps or so on startup so I run it on the circuit for my laundry and it works fine. Not sure if that means the motor is running at a lower power or what.
- kyngfish

Wow… if it’s only pulling 20A when run on 115v, then I don’t see how that could possibly be a 3hp motor. The data plates for the dual voltage ones I’ve found so far all indicate ~32A.

It looks to me like your motor is already wired for 240V operation. The switch is another story.
- clagwell

I think so as well.. in the wiring diagrams I’ve been able to pull up for that motor model number, they all show only two wire nuts being needed for 115v, and three for 230v – although that obviously doesn’t mean it is right! A picture of the motor plate, even if worn, could help as well, as it will give the specific motor number – and it might be able to be enhanced digitally so it can be read. It would also help if the OP could clarify which wire #’s are tied to each other, and which ones the two incoming power lines are connected to. From the picture, it looks like #1 is tied to the white inbound line only, which is correct for 230v. The starter is definitely wired for 115v (using H5 (115) lug instead of H3 (230)). Here is a diagram of what I could find on the internet:

Question – does the machine run well as is on the laundry circuit? Are you sure the laundry circuit is wired as 115v? The normal outlet for the washing machine is usually 115v, but the standard dryer wiring is a 230v 30A circuit. Do you have a meter that can verify?

Edit for:

2 pole 20 amp 250 (20 amps on each pole)

that sounds like a 230 volt circuit, and is the size needed for that motor at 230v.
What outlet in the laundry have you been using?

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View kyngfish's profile

kyngfish

115 posts in 946 days


#13 posted 03-08-2020 07:17 PM

Yeah. I’ll check the wiring. My plaque looks different. It’s square. But I’ll send that as well

Guy who sold it to me told me it was wired for 110 and I took his word for it. But maybe he just switched the spade at the switch.

It actually isn’t running well on 110. It sometimes won’t start.

View clagwell's profile

clagwell

294 posts in 649 days


#14 posted 03-08-2020 07:19 PM

If you’ve changed the transformer tap in the switch to the 220V tap the switch should be fine. A 20A breaker will not hurt the motor. Go ahead and fire it up.

At your own risk, of course!

-- Dave, Tippecanoe County, IN --- Is there a corollary to Beranek.s Law that applies to dust collection?

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8216 posts in 3056 days


#15 posted 03-08-2020 07:23 PM

It actually isn’t running well on 110. It sometimes won’t start.

That is a symptom of trying to run a machine wired for 240v on a 120v circuit. Sometimes won’t start or is very slow to start, doesn’t achieve full speed (or takes a long time to do so), and is easily bogged down. I guess you didn’t have the previous owner run it for you before purchase? What plug was on the end of the power cord when you bought it?

But maybe he just switched the spade at the switch.

That is a very, very real possibility. I have seen people do that before and not realize they also needed to not only modify the wiring at the motor, but also address the overload protection in the switch. As Dave said, switching the transformer tap back to 230v won’t hurt anything – although the machine most likely won’t run at all at 115v then, as it will not be producing enough voltage to operate the switch solenoid.

Motor badge sounds like one of the newer Blue/black/silver ones, which is fine. There was one example turn up on a google search that appeared to be the same wiring scheme, but it was difficult to tell as the picture was sideways and the wiring portion was out of focus. If you post a good picture of yours, I can 9 out of 10 time bring it back to where it can be read, or at least close enough.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

showing 1 through 15 of 25 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com