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How do I know if a plane should be bevel up or down?

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Forum topic by zemzero posted 02-28-2020 02:07 AM 971 views 0 times favorited 32 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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zemzero

5 posts in 35 days


02-28-2020 02:07 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question plane

This was found in my grandmas garage with the iron next to it and I have no idea if I should have it bevel up or down, or if it even matters to the plane itself IE, its interchangeable based on what I need to use it for.

I sharpened the plane to 25 degrees as best as I could, then I put a primary bevel at near 10 degrees. A mistake? I have no idea. It looks like a smoothing plane and seems to cut reasonably well. Well enough for someone who has no idea on how to actually use it. The corners dig in a lot, I clearly didnt camber it well enough as I don’t get any ribbons the size of the blade and the gouges I make with it are deep. Really deep.


1. Is a hand plane made specifically for an iron to be bevel up or down?
2. Is there a correct angle for the bevel I should re-grind to and do I really need a primary bevel?
3. Is it unlikely to be able to use this plane to square up the edges of boards under 24”?
4. Is this actually a smoothing plane? I can’t seem to get thin shavings. I either get small chips or thick ribbons.

Im trying to square up this practice board on the left but I seem to keep making it worse, I just cant get rid of the divets.


32 replies so far

View Walker's profile

Walker

263 posts in 1148 days


#1 posted 02-28-2020 02:37 AM

Definitely bevel down for that design. The size looks like a smoothing plane. i.e. smoothing already flattened surfaces (instead of using sandpaper). What you’re trying to do is called edge jointing, which is typically done with a much larger plane (Like a Stanley #7 or #8) called a jointing plane. These have longer beds, more surface area to ‘register’ against the work piece. This theoretically can be done with a smaller plane, however because it’s shorter it is much more likely to follow the curve already there.

Google “paul sellers hand plane” and you’ll get a plethora of youtube treasures of cleaning, sharpening, tuning, using, and anything else to do with a hand plane. Here’s one about bevel up vs bevel down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10RPOPBTwZA

-- ~Walker

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

16544 posts in 3294 days


#2 posted 02-28-2020 02:53 AM

Cutting too much. Start by drawing the cutter up until it doesn’t make a shaving at all. Then, 1/4 turn at a time on that depth adjuster, will get you ‘just engaging’ on the workpiece.

Very unusual plane, not seen one like that before.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. - OldTools Archive -

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bondogaposis

5682 posts in 3027 days


#3 posted 02-28-2020 02:54 AM

Definitely bevel down, I don’t see a chip breaker. I am not familiar with that brand of plane, but most of that type have chip breakers. Or maybe that was the chip breaker you sharpened and it is missing the iron?

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Walker's profile

Walker

263 posts in 1148 days


#4 posted 02-28-2020 03:01 AM

Google “patent number 1914609”. There is plenty of information available.

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2018/12/13/shelton-04/

http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?number=1914609&typeCode=0

-- ~Walker

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

1102 posts in 1652 days


#5 posted 02-28-2020 03:11 AM

Yup it’s a Shelton smoother. Those boards are a little long to try and joint with that plane. Timetestedtools has some info on them.

View poopiekat's profile

poopiekat

4664 posts in 4410 days


#6 posted 02-28-2020 04:15 AM

I like Sheltons! The concept of a pin continuously moving parallel to the cutter, rather than a yoke traveling in an arc where it engages, is definitely a better idea. It’s a shame it never really caught on.

Sort of like a rack and pinion design concept, rather than a clunky steering box and Pitman arm.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

2777 posts in 2474 days


#7 posted 02-28-2020 04:19 AM

I’ve also never seen a Shelton plane.
Is the chip breaker the cap iron?

-- Aj

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

25016 posts in 3359 days


#8 posted 02-28-2020 04:26 AM

They had one small flaw….the pin that moved the iron…was cast iron, and had a habit of wanting to snap off….

Had 3 of them come through the shop….and one had a broken pin…

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16544 posts in 3294 days


#9 posted 02-28-2020 04:31 AM

Holy Cow, PK! That’s quite a lineup!

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. - OldTools Archive -

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poopiekat

4664 posts in 4410 days


#10 posted 02-28-2020 04:41 AM

Thanks, Bandit and Smitty!
A couple of years ago, a member asked what the thread pitch was on Shelton knobs and Totes. Turned into a big showdown between Horizontal and me. Both of us, using our thread pitch gauges, came up with totally different results consistently. My Sheltons came from all 4 corners of the earth and measured identically, his planes, umm I don’t recall exactly. It came to a Mexican standoff, and we went back to our corners without agreement.

Bandit: I’ve learned if you need Shelton Parts on Ebay, search by only the patent number. Most people don’t know the part they have belongs to a Shelton.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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poopiekat

4664 posts in 4410 days


#11 posted 02-28-2020 04:48 AM



Holy Cow, PK! That s quite a lineup!

- Smitty_Cabinetshop

Smitty, that photo was one I posted, to show that I had machine screws used for the totes and knobs, the ones Horizontal had were all waisted brass barrel nuts. As I mentioned, mine were from all over the place and it could not possibly be that mine were identically modified, which poured more gasoline on the fire.

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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bandit571

25016 posts in 3359 days


#12 posted 02-28-2020 05:27 AM

One of them that wandered through…

IF you want to adjust the depth of the cut…do NOT have the “lever cap” torqued down. you WILL snap that pin off..

Also…there is no “frog” to these planes…more like an over-grown No. 110
( this one is for PP…)

Like the Sheltons….LONG GONE…
Now..IF you all can ID this…thing..

About the size of a No.3 plane…..also, no longer in the shop….

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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poopiekat

4664 posts in 4410 days


#13 posted 02-28-2020 01:33 PM

Bandit: Good to see others with Sheltons too!

No clue here on that mystery plane. Could it be one of those Russian made knock-offs I see on Ebay, coming from Bulgaria and other Eastern Europe countries?

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Don W's profile

Don W

19546 posts in 3243 days


#14 posted 02-28-2020 01:39 PM

the theory is fine, but the execution was crap. The blade doesn’t have enough support and it’s to thin to be a “good” smoother, IMO.

I’ve tuned a couple. You can get them to work, but hit tough wood and forget it.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Don W's profile

Don W

19546 posts in 3243 days


#15 posted 02-28-2020 01:41 PM

Bandit, I believe your mystery plane might be a goodall, https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/12/15/goodall-hand-planes/

Edit, changed my mind. Its a Defiance #1213

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/stanley-defiance-line/

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

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