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Forum topic by MaxwellDesignCrew posted 02-24-2020 01:47 PM 460 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MaxwellDesignCrew

5 posts in 41 days


02-24-2020 01:47 PM

Topic tags/keywords: oak

So I am building a dining table with a 6.5’ x 3’ x 2.5” white oak butcher block style top. There will be about 48 flat sawn planks 6.5’ long 2.5” wide and .75” thick that will be glued together to make this beast of a top. After doing some research, I see that oak may not the best choice for this project because of its instability but I am still determined build it. Does anybody know of a good glue to use? Any suggestions to make this project a success?


18 replies so far

View LittleShaver's profile

LittleShaver

638 posts in 1295 days


#1 posted 02-24-2020 02:18 PM

Any of the Titebond glues will be fine. I think TB III has the longest open time and is a good choice for a large glue-up.

-- Sawdust Maker

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JackDuren

993 posts in 1635 days


#2 posted 02-24-2020 03:00 PM

For the restaurant industry we used titebond II. If you need more open time either do 1/2 the table at a time or use titebond extend…

There was always complaints about red oak or white oak making restaurant tables. You have to look a little harder for cracks but you can make a nice table out of it. Ash was there first choice. Usually because of the price…

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CaptainKlutz

2659 posts in 2170 days


#3 posted 02-24-2020 03:53 PM

When I did same thing with beech lumber for a hand tool bench, used Titebond Extend with a roller bottle applicator. Allowed me to glue together ~6-8 strips at a time in my dry AZ climate. The 6” sub-assemblies fit on my jointer. Two strips bonded together would fit my 12” planer. :-)

2 tips:
1) Be sure to match up the grain direction to have all boards run same way, as it avoids tear out due machining against the grain. Use a micro-fiber cloth if can not feel direction with finger. Micro fiber cloth will snag/catch when you rub against the grain. Mark the direction on the top of lumber with crayon/chalk and keep the grain aligned. Final flattening/smoothing can be challenge when a couple boards have grain running backwards.

2) Straight boards make straight panel. If board has warp/twist/cup and you attempt to clamp it flat, it will not stay straight. The entire sub-section will develop internal stresses and create new warp/twist issues as the glue dries and panel acclimates in shop. In severe case, might even de-laminate or crack when you trim the ends to final length. Use only straight and square boards.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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MaxwellDesignCrew

5 posts in 41 days


#4 posted 02-25-2020 05:13 AM

Thanks for the tips. So I love titebond pva glues but I have been reading about the glue creep associated with it. I would love to use a glue that has no creep. Also with so much surface area to be glued, I fear that I would be introducing too much moisture into the wood if I used a glue that contains water. I’m considering using epoxy after I scuff the surfaces with some coarse sand paper. I may even go extra crazy and have three pieces of all thread hidden inside to keep things clamped together. This may be over kill but it’s for a high end client and I don’t want it falling apart after a few years.

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jeffswood

27 posts in 3150 days


#5 posted 02-25-2020 05:24 AM

Not sure how far along you are, but for glue ups like this I always did them in small section, typically no wider than what I could run through the planer or drum sander depending on what you have. Leave it a little thicker than you need.

So in your case you would do three 12” wide glue ups, bring them to final thickness and then glue all three together. I always found this easier than fighting time to get the entire top glued up at once.

View MaxwellDesignCrew's profile

MaxwellDesignCrew

5 posts in 41 days


#6 posted 02-25-2020 05:44 AM

I still have some planing to do on the planks and a few other small steps before I start to glue it all up. I thought about doing things in sections like your talking about jeffswood but I don’t think my tiny antique craftsman jointer and I can do a good enough job cutting the edges perfectly straight. A lot of my planks have a slight bow in them but since they are only about .75 thick, they can be easily clamped into submission. So my plan is to glue it up in one piece and then wrestle it over to my router sled to flatten it.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

2659 posts in 2170 days


#7 posted 02-25-2020 10:53 AM


A lot of my planks have a slight bow in them but since they are only about .75 thick, they can be easily clamped into submission.
- MaxwellDesignCrew

???
Suggest you don’t do it. Straight boards is only way to make a straight panel!
Especially with large grained wood like Oak.

Bowed flat sawn board, clamped straight, will crack end grain to relieve the stress. Plus the extra pressure used to pull the separated ends together, tends to put too much pressure at pivot point; which causes total glue squeeze out and dry area.

Only bowed lumber I would use are boards that completely flatten when pushed by hand against a flat table. If it takes more than a couple pounds pressure, you will have internal stress (and cracks).

BTDTGTTS Don’t repeat my Klutz mistake….

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

660 posts in 855 days


#8 posted 02-25-2020 11:56 AM

Oak is fine for this type of top. I’m assuming your face glueing the strips? If so, slight bow over 6.5’ is fine.

I would use TB2 and glue the whole thing up. Then rip it in half to send it through my sander and glue Back together. How are you flattening? Glue ups like this like to shift. I would allow it little extra because of this.

You may want to consider finding a cabinet shop to sand flat for you. A 50” wide belt would make a nice flat top.

View avsmusic1's profile

avsmusic1

592 posts in 1361 days


#9 posted 02-25-2020 02:27 PM


I thought about doing things in sections like your talking about jeffswood but I don t think my tiny antique craftsman jointer and I can do a good enough job cutting the edges perfectly straight.
- MaxwellDesignCrew

You’re going to glue up 48+ 80” strips at one time? You’re a braver man than I

I don’t completely follow the jointer issue here but at 2.5”+ you could run smaller sections through a planner on their side too.

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

993 posts in 1635 days


#10 posted 02-25-2020 03:46 PM

A lot of my planks have a slight bow in them but since they are only about .75 thick, they can be easily clamped into submission.
- MaxwellDesignCrew

???
Suggest you don t do it. Straight boards is only way to make a straight panel!
Especially with large grained wood like Oak.

Bowed flat sawn board, clamped straight, will crack end grain to relieve the stress. Plus the extra pressure used to pull the separated ends together, tends to put too much pressure at pivot point; which causes total glue squeeze out and dry area.

Only bowed lumber I would use are boards that completely flatten when pushed by hand against a flat table. If it takes more than a couple pounds pressure, you will have internal stress (and cracks).

BTDTGTTS Don t repeat my Klutz mistake….

- CaptainKlutz


He should be fine. The only thing that would help this process is a planer. This would get any irregularities out of each board before glue up….I do glue ups for tables and game tables in 12” sections because I have a 13”planer…

View MaxwellDesignCrew's profile

MaxwellDesignCrew

5 posts in 41 days


#11 posted 02-26-2020 12:58 AM



???
Suggest you don t do it. Straight boards is only way to make a straight panel!
Especially with large grained wood like Oak.

Bowed flat sawn board, clamped straight, will crack end grain to relieve the stress. Plus the extra pressure used to pull the separated ends together, tends to put too much pressure at pivot point; which causes total glue squeeze out and dry area.

Only bowed lumber I would use are boards that completely flatten when pushed by hand against a flat table. If it takes more than a couple pounds pressure, you will have internal stress (and cracks).

BTDTGTTS Don t repeat my Klutz mistake….

- CaptainKlutz

The boards that are bowed flatten out by their own weight or with very slight pressure with one finger when set on a flat surface, so I don’t see them as a problem

I thought about doing things in sections like your talking about jeffswood but I don t think my tiny antique craftsman jointer and I can do a good enough job cutting the edges perfectly straight.
- MaxwellDesignCrew

You re going to glue up 48+ 80” strips at one time? You re a braver man than I

I don t completely follow the jointer issue here but at 2.5”+ you could run smaller sections through a planner on their side too.

- avsmusic1

My concern with doing multiple small glue ups is that the edges may need flattening again to make a good glue joint when I glue the smaller groups together. With my inexperience and my little jointer (the bed is 18” or so), I feel that it would be very difficult to get a perfect, flat joint. It wasn’t as much of an issue when I jointed the single planks because any slight bow could be easily squeezed flat. If I were to have a similar bow in a glued up group, It would take much more force to squeeze flat and would be unacceptable. With that being said, I might glue them into six inch sections so that I could stand them up and run them through my planer to to get the edges right like avsmusic1 suggested.


Oak is fine for this type of top. I’m assuming your face glueing the strips? If so, slight bow over 6.5’ is fine.

I would use TB2 and glue the whole thing up. Then rip it in half to send it through my sander and glue Back together. How are you flattening? Glue ups like this like to shift. I would allow it little extra because of this.

- CWWoodworking

Yes, I am face glueing. So what makes tb2 better than the rest for this project? Is the reason that glue ups like this shift because of the water in the glue? Wouldn’t it be a better idea to use a glue that isn’t formulated with water? Just curious.

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

660 posts in 855 days


#12 posted 02-26-2020 01:27 AM

TB2 is more water resistant. With that said, I have a poplar cutting board that has taken over 15 yrs of hard use without failing. It was made with TB 1. Lol.

They will want to slip slip more because you have 47 glued pieces of wood. PVA glue is fine for the top.

Just a reminder, this is going to take a TON of clamps. I recently did dining legs by laminating 3 sticks. It took 6 clamps for 30”.

View andrewlyman5252's profile

andrewlyman5252

1 post in 36 days


#13 posted 02-26-2020 01:34 AM

Everything is very open with a precise clarification of the challenges. It was really informative. Your site is extremely helpful. Many thanks for sharing!

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View pontic's profile

pontic

759 posts in 1284 days


#14 posted 02-26-2020 01:40 AM

Making oak chairs 3/4 stock. All I can say is I don’t like oak for any intricate joinery. Got to be real careful about tear out. For big slabs it’s not too bad. But the old saying “warp in warp out” especially goes for oak.

-- Illigitimii non carburundum sum

View jeffswood's profile

jeffswood

27 posts in 3150 days


#15 posted 02-26-2020 02:39 AM

Max, if you are worried about getting good jointed edges, keep in mind to reverse your joint – board to to board. IE if your jointer is 89 rather then 90 if you reverse your next board you will have 91 joint and it fits perfectly with the 89 board.

Hopefully you understand what I am staying.

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