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Dust Collector setup and venting outside

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Forum topic by IWFabrication posted 01-28-2020 08:48 PM 592 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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IWFabrication

13 posts in 147 days


01-28-2020 08:48 PM

Topic tags/keywords: blower dust collector outdoor collector outside collector vent outside

My shop is indoors and with limited space. I am looking to wall mount my collector towards the ceiling on the wall. The setups ive seen show the blower connected to the original bag holder (big circle thing) with a cyclone or similar bin under, and a vent tube outside. Any reason I cant just run my intake tube to my blower, and the exit tube straight outside and bypass the cyclone or other bin underneath all together?

My plan would be to mount the blower vertical so the intake and exit are horizontal, the exit tube would take a 90 degree turn outside, 90 degree or 45 for better transition vertically, and then another curve at 45 or 90 into a receptacle. Its a bigger 3 phase blower, so my only concern is the 4-6ft vertical jump to go above the receptacle. Overall about 20ft of tubing before the blower, and another 8-10ft from blower to the receptacle.


21 replies so far

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1248 posts in 3433 days


#1 posted 01-28-2020 09:12 PM

If you hear or cool the shop, it will remove the conditioned air and cost you $$$. You will need some kind of filter or screen to keep the chips and dust in the bin. Did you say 3 phase blower? Is this a home shop?

View BattleRidge's profile

BattleRidge

133 posts in 856 days


#2 posted 01-28-2020 09:15 PM

My first concern is in regard to where you are located. If venting a DC to the exterior of the building, you will in effect be moving a LOT of climate controlled air from your shop to the outdoors which will require a lot of replacement air to your shop. This can be a quite negative thing if you are in a cold-weather climate and the cost of heating your shop will undoubtedly increase. Additionally, if you are using natural gas, propane or similar heating appliances (or a gas water heater), the negative pressure you are creating in the shop can easily reverse the flow of exhaust from these appliances with the potential of filling the shop with carbon monoxide or other nasty things.

-- ~Art~

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ibewjon

1248 posts in 3433 days


#3 posted 01-28-2020 10:04 PM

I also should have added the possible issue with CO being pulled into the shop. Best to keep filtered exhaust in the shop.

View HuckleberryWoodWrks's profile

HuckleberryWoodWrks

45 posts in 42 days


#4 posted 01-28-2020 10:18 PM

I will add to others about heating and cooling. I initially did this until I realized it took approx 10 min for the shop to heat back up to 80° in the summer. Relatively decent temp to sweat box within a few min, no thanks!

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1586 posts in 2276 days


#5 posted 01-28-2020 11:33 PM

Sure you can. I do.

I work in my garage/shop and it is not heated or cooled and has roof vents and vents right above the slab so I don’t have to worry about replacing ‘expensive’ air. :)
(If your shop is insulated and climate controlled then this may not be a good solution for you.)

I use the Oneida SDD and it does such a good job that I have no visible dust exiting the vent.

Here is the path it takes:

I use a 6” Dryer vent that blows right into our flower bed.

I have changed from HVAC ducting I was using for the exhaust to a flexible insulated ducting and it really reduced the noise coming out of the vent. (sorry no picture of that) It was pretty loud but it just sounds like a dryer running now.

I guess this really depends on your situation.

-- A bad day woodworking is still better than a good day working.

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IWFabrication

13 posts in 147 days


#6 posted 01-29-2020 12:26 AM

It is a home shop. Im using an inverter to covert from single to three phase. Is there an issue with this im unaware of?

My concern with the setup, is whether there are issues with blowing material vertically up and out, as well as the orientation of the inlet outlet. Looking at my blower, it appears the inlet would be facing upwards, so my dust collecting tubes would travel horizontally along the wall/ceiling and dump into the blower. Then the exit is horizontal which would then have about 3ft before going vertical to the bin outside. So motor on bottom, shaft vertical. Like fivecodys above, except motor on bottom, and if I dont have to, dont want to used a cyclone or bin between the outlet and my bin outside.

View Bob5103's profile

Bob5103

151 posts in 1473 days


#7 posted 01-29-2020 02:30 AM

I am not sure I completely understand the blower orientation, but there shouldn’t be a problem. If you have your collection outside can you just build a box to the put the whole unit outside? Protected from the weather that would work well. I exhaust outside and don’t notice a great difference in the heat/air exchange, but my shop is a standalone building.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5988 posts in 3133 days


#8 posted 01-29-2020 11:36 AM

I’m also not as clear on what you are asking. If the question is about the elbows and the turns they take, your good to go. But discharging all that stuff directly into a bin has me puzzled. There needs to be a way for the air to escape, otherwise no air flow. If you just stick the discharge down (not connected to the bin) and expect the dust/chips to stay in the can I suspect your in for a big surprise. It will almost certainly be blown all over the place. I’ve seen large shops with setups that didn’t use a bin and they lat the heavy stuff pile up, the fines get carried away in the wind. That’s not all that practical in a neighborhood. Then you still have to have the pile scooped up and removed after some time.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View IWFabrication's profile

IWFabrication

13 posts in 147 days


#9 posted 01-29-2020 12:43 PM

Yes there will be vent/filter for air to escape from the outdoor bin. Blower will be mounted inside.

as for orientation, take a look at the blowers above. intake through the center, discharge through the side, motors above or on top of the unit. What if the motor is on bottom, my dust collecting tubes from my tools empty down into the blower (cause the opening is on top, motor on bottom, no cyclone setup).

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5988 posts in 3133 days


#10 posted 01-29-2020 01:43 PM

I still don’t think that will make a difference (motor on bottom).

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View them700project's profile

them700project

209 posts in 1658 days


#11 posted 01-29-2020 02:15 PM

I have clearvue that changes the air in my garage almost instantly. My shop is untempered space. I still like the cleaner air. If I were to have conditioned space I would not run it until I was done with big machines. My sanders are on small hepa with dust deputy. Im in nj we dont get super cold but 10-30 degrees is common in the winter. I can run propane heater for an hour to heat the concrete and objects in the space, then I run dc while running tools then I can fire it back up after dc turns off. It doesnt get super cold if the objects were warmed prior. Another thing you could do would be to run an IR heater, the air doesnt get warm in the space till after the objects so the space still feels good.

As far as cooling goes. the movement feels good while its running. but once its off and new air is in the space it does get warm. If I were in there 40+ a week I would do a heat pump and they can cool pretty quickly.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1248 posts in 3433 days


#12 posted 01-29-2020 03:04 PM

A heat pump is just like any air conditioner in that if it cools quickly, it is oversized and will not remove the humidity. Then it feels cold and damp. The summer humidity in Illinois makes a properly sized air conditioner important.

View them700project's profile

them700project

209 posts in 1658 days


#13 posted 01-29-2020 03:19 PM



A heat pump is just like any air conditioner in that if it cools quickly, it is oversized and will not remove the humidity. Then it feels cold and damp. The summer humidity in Illinois makes a properly sized air conditioner important.

- ibewjon

For a garage space a dehumidifier in conjunction with a split would be ideal. The AC unit removes humidity as a biproduct of cooling. It doesnt care if humidity is left in the space. a humidifier works of a humidistat and will remove until the level is met.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1248 posts in 3433 days


#14 posted 01-29-2020 03:41 PM

That is correct, BUT, the heat is discharged from the dehumidifier back into the shop, and the AC must run more to remove that heat. A properly sized ac will remove the humidity and discharge the heat outside. I have a mini split in my shop, and am very happy with the results. And the heat pump efficiently heats the shop most winters. It works down to -10 F.

View IWFabrication's profile

IWFabrication

13 posts in 147 days


#15 posted 01-29-2020 04:13 PM

So if it doesnt matter that the motor is on the bottom with shaft facing up thats great.

As far as the heating/cooling and humidity, I am in Michigan, so 10 degrees is usually as cold as it gets outside occasionally colder, but generally winters are around 20-30 (at least this year). I run a dehumidifier in the summer months to keep humidity down. My shop is in the basement/underground of a building. AC and Heat upstairs – though the furnace is on my level. No heat or AC in my shop space.

The furnace is however walled off/ has a door in a separate room. so picture a rectangle with the long length going left to right. upper Left corner is furnace room. On the right upper corner is another room for paint and has a blower to blow out fumes but is open allowing air in/out when fan isnt blowing out. Bottom right corner is another room for metal and has a similar blower setup to remove welding fumes/small metal dust particles.

So decent good air is able to come in from the right side of the shop space. Your concerns with gases being pulled from the furnace (natural gas through utility company)...my dust collector system will only be run when I am using my table saw, miter, jointer, planer. For sanding I used a shop vac. Dust collector would run longest at about an hour when Im using my router sled for bigger slabs. I dont see how with a single tube opened (other gates of the system closed) at the machine im using would cause suction of gases 15-20+ ft away with walls separating. Though I dont know the physics of it all so I could be incorrect.

One other question I had about my blower motor. Its older, plate says 3380 RPM/60hz. Im assuming 3380 is the max I should run it. My VFD I use to convert my 1 phase to 3 phase runs at 50hz. So the display shows in frequency not RPM. By my calculations of 50hz (actual) /60hz (potential) = RPM/3380 > 0.833×3380 = 2816RPM is the max I can run my blower at the VFDs max 50hz. Is there an issue with running my blower at a slower RPM? even at 20-25hz on the VFD its working pretty well. Has a 8” opening I believe. I know if I reduce from the 8” at the blower to say 6” or even 4” my CFM is cut drastically as only so much air can be sucked through at once. Almost seems counter intuitive though, as the suction would be greater at the open 4-6”, unless theres a point at which reducing hurts CFM and a point at which increasing also hurts if the RPM/Suction cant keep up.

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