I am curious on what people's views are that use mainly hand tools on the importance of a jointer/try plane like a 7 or 8.
I know Richard Maguire says you don't need one and to tell off anyone that tells you that you need an 8. Then again he has a LN 8 that he used to use on every bench he made.
The Schwarz calls it a "good to have" tool, but also personally uses a LN 8 as his jointer/try, though he says you "can" use a jack as a "smallish jointer/try plane".
Paul Sellers has a mixed view that goes all over the place. Sometimes he says the metal ones are useless and the wooden are better. Sometimes he says he sometimes uses on but its rare. Other times he says you can do everything you need to so with a 4 or 5. He says the reason you find old 7s and 8s in good shape is because nobody used them.
So am curious what peoples opinions are for the common hobbyist like myself. When building my workbench I found it was quite a lot of work to get it flat and long pieces jointed with my jack plane. Luckily I had an 8' level that i could use as a straight edge, otherwise it would have just been guessing. I picked up an 18" long transitional plane that really helped to flatten my bench. But now am curious if I should save up to buy a 7 or 8? Or just build the skill it takes to use a jack more effectively on longer pieces?
My jointer plane is a good to use when flattening large slabs by hand. If the slabs are really bad, i take them to a local shop to have flattened on a cnc but for the most part I do them by hand. It is a workout. To that end, I have a #7, i'm on the hunt for a number 8 which gives you about 2 more inches of length and some additional weight.
As I've said in a recent post on what size plane… I size the plane to the work. I often need to flatten, remove twist, correct cupping, or bowing of the rough sawn lumber I use. For that reason I can't do without the big three; my 6, 7, and 8 are my most used planes. Just this morning I was flattening and truing the parts of a trestle table. I do this every time cut a board to the rough lengths needed for a project. It amazes me, even now, that I can achieve a perfectly flat board face from something so poor. The same for making glue joint edges for table tops… I have tried with a 5, and cannot get as true a surface. They'll have to fight me to take my 8 away!
I use my #6 for the vast majority of flattening and jointing. It's long enough to keep a good straight edge and lighter to use and control than a 7 or 8. That said, I have a #8 size that has been used building workbenches and a few other tasks. It's nice to have, but there is nothing I used it for that couldn't have been done with the #6, it just would have taken more passes.
+1 to what the KYToolSmith said. I would use my #8 and my other #8 in a fight to keep you from taking them away from me. And you don't want to get hit with a #8 so best to just leave me be with them.
Jokes aside I too size the plane to the work. I've read several things online saying you don't need an 8 or a 6 but I feel that to be untrue. Honestly I use my 8 and 6 more than my 7. My 7 gets its most use from flattening table tops. My workbench needed all the first year movement taken out of its top and the 7 was the perfect size to go at it diagonally and get a super flat surface. Followed up with a #5 and for that glassy smooth feel I went back over with a 604.
Paul Sellers is a man among children when it comes to plane usage. You "can" do everything with a 4 or 5 but why if you don't have to. The bigger planes will cost a bit more but I found a matching #7 and #8 at a local "vintage" shop…whatever that means…for $135 for the pair. They aren't pretty (yet) but both were type 10s so that was quite a bargain if you ask me.
And while we are on the subject of jointing and do you need a certain size plane…if you build small boxes try to find a good 5-1/4 size. That is my "jointer" of choice for thin stock.
I'm also just a hobbyist. I have one #5 set up as a jack and a second #5 set up with a tighter mouth and pretty straight blade. I'm happy with that for anything up to 32 inches or so. I feel like I can pretty effectively get things flat and get good panel glue-ups with those 2 tools. I agree that they become a hassle with longer pieces. I made a 7' tabletop for a friend and it took a good bit of testing and taking down high spots to get nice joint lines for the glue up.
If I was going to be making 5' long or bigger pieces pretty regularly, I would probably get a longer plane. Since I don't regularly make big stuff like that, I'm not in any hurry to track one down. I've also kicked around the idea of making a wooden plane with a 20"-22" sole. I may do that whenever I decide to make something big again.
Are you planning to make bigger pieces (That need to be particularly flat or jointed) anytime soon? That is how I would decide whether or not to get a longer plane.
I use my no 7 all the time! I'd have a hard time edge jointing beyond 2 or 3 feet without it. I use it on faces of boards too. Reserve the smoother mostly for final smoothing.
I have a #7 that doesn't get used all that often. I could live without it easily enough but it's also nice to have when I need it. IMO, you need them if you're dimensioning large stock with only hand tools otherwise you can probably get by fine with a 5-1/2 or 6. Then again, there are folks out there that can joint a raw board flat with only a #4. It really just comes down to what you do and how you do it.
If you use your jack plane and THINK you'd use a jointer plane you probably will. I have two #8-sized jointers in my collection and I use them often. I've owned a dozen or more #7's and #8's but always sell the #7's. I can't tell much of a difference in difficulty to push a #7 vs #8 and the #8 is bigger and feels better. But more importantly the cutter is 1/4" wider so it's more efficient. I have a jointer-length wood-body plane that is fun to play with but I prefer bailey-style planes to wood ones.
I really enjoy restoring old planes and tools, so factor that in when you weigh my opinion… I stand by saying that you'll use it if you use other planes, but a new LN 8 may not be justifiable for an occasional use tool if you have a tight budget.
Paul Sellers is a man among children when it comes to plane usage. You "can" do everything with a 4 or 5 but why if you don t have to. The bigger planes will cost a bit more but I found a matching #7 and #8 at a local "vintage" shop…whatever that means…for $135 for the pair
And while we are on the subject of jointing and do you need a certain size plane…if you build small boxes try to find a good 5-1/4 size. That is my "jointer" of choice for thin stock.
Well Paul also justifies it saying that normally you buy wood from lumberyards where its already been skip planed on both faces. Which is true where I live, its very hard to find rough lumber here. So a lot of times I get 3/4 material and just smooth off the machine planer waves with my #4.
I "kind of" have a 5 1/4 already. By that I mean I found a 5 1/4 on CL that was missing parts. And I found a #3 that was missing parts. Both dirt cheap since missing parts. I used both but found the 5 1/4 kind of awkward size. So I made the 3 a superfine smoother. But if I need a 5 1/4 i can just swap the frog/iron/chipbreaker over and voila a 5 1/4!
I actually have a 6" jointer. But kind of burnt out on using machines so much. So trying to do more hand tool work, as its just a hobby for me. Less noise, less dust, more relaxing and I actually get a workout. Mainly now using my table saw when it makes sense, Or certain other power tools, but then the majority with hand tools.
I really enjoy restoring old planes and tools, so factor that in when you weigh my opinion… I stand by saying that you ll use it if you use other planes, but a new LN 8 may not be justifiable for an occasional use tool if you have a tight budget.
I should have added this bit to my comment as well. I use all sizes of planes because I buy them on the cheaper side and make them nice. I probably wouldn't have so many if i was buying them new.
I use my #7 all the time, primarily for truing edges for panel glue-ups. I have a nice tailed jointer, but I prefer to edge joint boards for glue-ups with a #7, even if I've run them through the jointer first. I also have a #6 and a #8. I use them both occasionally, but the #7 is the workhorse. I wouldn't be without it.
I find myself using a 4 for smoothing, an old Miller's Falls #5 for jack plane work and a number 7 for jointing. I just purchased a 5 1/2 that I am excited about using. I REALLY like my 7. I don't have an 8 and don't use planes enough to justify one, at least yet. It is an addiction after all.
I find myself using a 4 for smoothing, an old Miller s Falls #5 for jack plane work and a number 7 for jointing. I just purchased a 5 1/2 that I am excited about using. I REALLY like my 7. I don t have an 8 and don t use planes enough to justify one, at least yet. It is an addiction after all.
I find myself using a 4 for smoothing, an old Miller s Falls #5 for jack plane work and a number 7 for jointing. I just purchased a 5 1/2 that I am excited about using. I REALLY like my 7. I don t have an 8 and don t use planes enough to justify one, at least yet. It is an addiction after all.
- Dwain
Its only an addiction if you have collectors as well as users. If you use them all its not an addiction. That being said i fall into the former.
What if you use them just to validate your purchase? I have a few molding planes I purchased that have only cut scrap pine to test sharpness and setup.
I have a couple 7s and one 8 (Heft and Hubris). I will never be without an 8, don't care what anyone says. It starts moving and stays moving, joints edges perfectly, and is otherwise just a joy to use. Every. Time.
I really enjoy restoring old planes and tools, so factor that in when you weigh my opinion… I stand by saying that you ll use it if you use other planes, but a new LN 8 may not be justifiable for an occasional use tool if you have a tight budget.
I have a really hard time justifying the prices of any LN planes… I mean, don't get me wrong, I know they are beautiful and don't need a lot of work… But good googley moogley I am trying to earn a living here! LOL
I sure wouldn't turn one down…. But, I have lived so far without. I might just survive without any a little longer.
I should have added this bit to my comment as well. I use all sizes of planes because I buy them on the cheaper side and make them nice. I probably wouldn t have so many if i was buying them new.
This is my reality. I inherited a couple of planes from my Pops and Granddad. But, I bought a couple off eBay fifteen or twenty years ago, trued and tuned them and now they cut as well as anything I've ever used.
I have Stanley and Bailey #'s 4, 5c, 7, 78 and a 271. Plus some Millers Falls block planes and an old Stanley Spokeshave. They all see regular usage. But, realistically, if I didn't have any one or two of them, my life would still go on and I would still be able to do the work I do… I'd just figure out another way to do it.
Some jobs require a 7 or 8. It's just the reality. The work can be done in other ways, but sometimes the big old iron is just the easiest, most efficient way.
When my woodworking entered the stage of long, straight edges I bought my first jointer. That was when I was about twenty. More recently my interests shifted to relief carving - designs with few straight edges or surfaces - so the two Stanley #5s and Stanley block plane see very little use. The #7 in my grandpa's tool chest is still there.
The problem with Sellers and Swartz and guys like them is they make a living telling you what you need. It doesn't take long before they run out of things that are new to write, so they have to make ******************** up. Otherwise, there goes part of their income stream.
We all work a little different, make different things, have different experiences, different bodies, and different ackes and pains.
I've always had the thought that you find a way to do what you do with what you have whenever possible, but continue to expand based on what will make your life easier.
I think basing your tool on the job is the right thing to do. If you're going to flatten one large panel every 2 or 3 years, use your current #4 or 5 if you want. If you're doing it more often there is nobody going to tell me it's not easier with a longer hand plane. How much longer? Well that depends on you. My #6 is probably my most used "longer" plane, but don't think I'm going to be without a jointer. When the #8 comes out, Dad's got a job to do!
Agree with Don W we all develop methods of work that suit us. I won't attribute motives, but I do agree somewhat that the "gurus" methods are often difficult to emulate, leaving one feeling a bit "inferior".
To the OP, in my work, I find the #6 THE most useful plane of all. Shooting, face planing, flattening jointing it really does it all for me. That said, I would hold on to the #7. I do have one and when I need it I'm glad I have it.
I've seen Mr. Sellers joint with a #4 with the utmost respect, I just don't see how. However #4 is very good for making a spring joint!
Agree with sizing the plane with the work. I do make larger projects, so I will have a 7 or 8 (or both). I machine my rough lumber, but all edges are jointed with a plane to get the correct fit for glue up. I use a jointer to start panel flattening, finish joint panel edges, true up a long board when I dont want to get the planer sled out (dont have or need a pwr jointer). Ive never used an 8, tho I have Handled a few at shows. I like my 7 in large part because it uses the same size blade and chip breaker as my 4-1/2's. #8 parts are not as plentiful or cheap. I use a 5-1/2 instead of a 6 because it came along while plane hunting and does that work just fine. No I would not trade a 7 or 8 for a 6. Might trade my 7 for an 8 if I get the chance to use one. All of mine are Bailey post wwII vintage and work great once properly tuned - no aftermarket thicker irons or breakers needed.
I have a small 4" benchtop jointer I use for edges on small parts. Anything that's too big for that gets treatment with my Stanley Bedrock #8. I do have a Keen K6 that I also use for edges, flattening faces and just about everything else.
I actually ended up with two #8 because I accidentally won two ebay auctions. I didn't expect to win both! I've kept them both for a few years, but I'm currently saving for other tools, so one is currently back on ebay. (shameless plug).
Corelz that's a lot of iron!
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