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Lichtenberg device safety wiring

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Forum topic by MBS1287 posted 01-22-2020 11:42 PM 870 views 0 times favorited 55 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MBS1287

8 posts in 25 days


01-22-2020 11:42 PM

Hello this is my first post as I just signed up. I am going to be making a lichtenberg device for epoxy fractal burns and wanted some input. I am very aware of the danger of these devices and have been doing a lot of reading on how to make them safer as to not make my wife a widow. My idea is the common seen wiring through a switch with the light to let me know it is plugged in regardless if power is running through the device, the switch is for on/off to let the power pass through the switch, after that is where I want to add two momentary push buttons so that way both my hands have to be away from the probes as to not touch them (removing even one hand and the machine stops), and off course proper 15k gto wire on the out puts, heavy duty clamps, shrink wrap and proper connections anywhere electricity will be flowing. Any other input from anyone on here to make it safer or where my plan may be flawed. I also was debating on a step pedal but thinking the three points of safety is enough. Thank you in advance and can post pictures as it starts coming together.


55 replies so far

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MBS1287

8 posts in 25 days


#1 posted 01-22-2020 11:48 PM

I’ve been sitting on it more and more. I want to add a light bulb after the momentary relays to clearly show it is 100% live and as a extra reassurance that I can move the prongs with know worries. I also want to add a 15amp breaker but not sure where. I would like to add it after the relays so if it does start acting up its killed before it gets near my hands on said relay. Any thoughts

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Madmark2

829 posts in 1219 days


#2 posted 01-22-2020 11:52 PM

A word of safety advice: DON’T!

-- The hump with the stump and the pump!

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Redoak49

4403 posts in 2619 days


#3 posted 01-22-2020 11:57 PM

This is not something that I would do. It is too risky for me and my wife. If I was an electrician well versed in high voltage and had ALL the safety equipment, I would not do it. I certainly would not do it based on YouTube videos.

Sorry to be so negative but I do not believe you should do this.

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Redoak49

4403 posts in 2619 days


#4 posted 01-22-2020 11:57 PM

This is not something that I would do. It is too risky for me and my wife. If I was an electrician well versed in high voltage and had ALL the safety equipment, I would not do it. I certainly would not do it based on YouTube videos.

Sorry to be so negative but I do not believe you should do this.

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Andybb

2486 posts in 1234 days


#5 posted 01-23-2020 12:08 AM

Read this first.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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MBS1287

8 posts in 25 days


#6 posted 01-23-2020 12:25 AM

Not strictly based off YouTube it’s just a good place to see as I am a visual learner, mixed with lots of reading, but also have experience with electricity but definitely not the 2k it should produce. I feel comfortable as I’ll have 2 indicators of power, a on off, and two relays that force my hands to be occupied or no power, a fuse that’ll kill power if it acts up, rubber electrical box for everything, incased in wood, and be around 9 feet away from the probes when there is power.

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mel52

1244 posts in 895 days


#7 posted 01-23-2020 12:51 AM

My advice on safety wiring would be to wire it to the bumper of some car when they go out of town. I used to be a lineman and have seen some scary stuff when everything is SUPPOSIDLY done perfectly correct. Good luck !!! Mel

-- MEL, Kansas

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Madmark2

829 posts in 1219 days


#8 posted 01-23-2020 01:02 AM

Do you know the ionization voltage for air? Bulk resistance of damp concrete? Air dried lumber? Wet lumber? Sappy lumber? Wet plywood? HS tubing is only good for 600v typ? Breakdown voltage of all your insulators? Have you figured your minimum body resistance for your voltage source to produce .005A across your chest? Run a 5kv HiPot tester for leakage paths that don’t show on your little DVM?

No to any of the above? You don’t know what you’re doing.

-- The hump with the stump and the pump!

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pottz

7907 posts in 1615 days


#9 posted 01-23-2020 01:03 AM

yeah id listen to all giving their opinion here,is this something you feel losing your life is worth it.yeah it looks cool but your wife wont think so at your funeral.please reconsider but if you still feel the need at least consult with an electrician experienced with high voltage.good luck.hey if you never post again ill guess we will know how it went!

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

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jacww

51 posts in 1638 days


#10 posted 01-23-2020 01:09 AM

MBS1287,

Some things are simply not worth the risk!

Pay attention to those above with more knowledge!

TonyC

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CaptainKlutz

2396 posts in 2125 days


#11 posted 01-23-2020 01:13 AM

LJ already has several threads on the topic of fractal burning. Read them!

People die doing this:
https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/news/woodworking-industry-news/fractal-burning-kills-another-michigan

Fractal Burning is banned by American Association of Woodturners Safety Committee.

The actual electrical equipment for the process is simple and can be cheap.
Cost of proper protective equipment (PPE) far exceeds the cost of electrical bits. Proper voltage rated gloves run ~$200. Then you have the non-conductive work surfaces, clothes, face protection in case of arc fault.
Can easily spend $500+ to protect your self from $50 worth of electrical parts.

When I was young and invincible, I might have tried fractal burning. But after 30 years of industrial safety exposure, watching loss of life, and knowing 2 people who have permanent disabilities who survived after incidents with high voltage; will not attempt it.

IME – You need to get more than internet reading education to have proper high voltage training before you attempt fractal burning. You need professionally high voltage safety training!

Attempting the process without the PPE is asking to die. Just like holding a stick of dynamite while fuse burns, or running across a busy street with eyes closed, and hoping you survive the redneck stunt. Don’t do fractal burning unless wearing PPE.

PS Suggest you show your family all the Lichtenberg device and fractal burning safety articles, and ask them:
Do I have your permission to die like this for my hobby?
Best Luck getting family permission.

Be safe, not Sorry.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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Andybb

2486 posts in 1234 days


#12 posted 01-23-2020 01:22 AM


Not strictly based off YouTube it s just a good place to see as I am a visual learner, mixed with lots of reading, but also have experience with electricity but definitely not the 2k it should produce. I feel comfortable as I ll have 2 indicators of power, a on off, and two relays that force my hands to be occupied or no power, a fuse that ll kill power if it acts up, rubber electrical box for everything, incased in wood, and be around 9 feet away from the probes when there is power.

- MBS1287

Set our minds at ease. Tell us about your experience with electricity.

On any forum when this comes up woodworkers say “it looks beautiful” and woodworkers who are also retired electrical workers say “you must be crazy!” There are hundreds of ways to beautify and embellish wood without risking death. Just pretend this way doesn’t exist.


Do you know the ionization voltage for air? Bulk resistance of damp concrete? Air dried lumber? Wet lumber? Sappy lumber? Wet plywood? HS tubing is only good for 600v typ? Breakdown voltage of all your insulators? Have you figured your minimum body resistance for your voltage source to produce .005A across your chest? Run a 5kv HiPot tester for leakage paths that don t show on your little DVM?

No to any of the above? You don t know what you re doing.

- Madmark2

No to any of the above???

Buy a laser engraver and use it to burn a jpg of the fractal.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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MBS1287

8 posts in 25 days


#13 posted 01-23-2020 01:38 AM

So is the biggest risk being electrocuted by the ends where the voltage is much higher? That seems like the biggest I see and why I wanted to add so many fail safes of keeping me far away from the propes and enclosing the MOT in wood. Any chance the MOT grenades?

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MBS1287

8 posts in 25 days


#14 posted 01-23-2020 01:44 AM

And sorry lots of info being thrown at me which is why I came here. I doing wiring in apartment complexes so like I said some knowledge but definitely not a electrical engineer but my friends dad is a VERY good electrical engineer so I know i can pick his brain also

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ChuckV

3267 posts in 4158 days


#15 posted 01-23-2020 02:05 AM

I do not have the technical expertise of the people giving you advice. But, I have been on this web site for quite a long while and I can tell you that those people know what they are talking about.

Believe me, they are not just screaming, “You’ll shoot your eye out!”

-- “Big man, pig man, ha ha, charade you are.” ― R. Waters

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