LumberJocks

Another Lichtenberg fractal burning death!

  • Advertise with us

« back to Safety in the Woodworking Shop forum

Forum topic by Andybb posted 01-11-2020 07:48 PM 758 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2606 posts in 1277 days


01-11-2020 07:48 PM

https://www.penturners.org/threads/shop-safety.163272/


I got word that Ronny was electrocuted using an engraving machine. I’ve seen them used on TV where you plug an electric source onto a piece of wood and then it burns a random pattern based on the grain. I’m not sure what they’re called but I know that he built a lot of custom conference room tables and the last time I talked with him he was in the process of doing a custom one. The tool was new to him and I can only guess he wasn’t familiar with it.

If you absolutely positively feel you are called by God to do this please at the very least buy a commercial unit and KNOW how to take the proper safety precautions. Otherwise, in the words of that late great woodworker Nancy Reagan, “just say no.”

-- Andy - Seattle USA


20 replies so far

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

991 posts in 1262 days


#1 posted 01-11-2020 08:27 PM

High voltage is no joke. The ONLY safety is distance. Disconnect from the mains. Hook up electrodes to work in distant, well insulated area. Use long switched power cord with ground to remotely cycle unit. Unplug from mains before getting within range to disconnect.

Neon transformers put out 180kv or more. Air ionizes at about 30kv per inch so 180kv will reach out to anything conductive within 6” or so. Once the arc is established only 8kv per inch is needed to sustain it or about two feet before it let’s go. In the time it takes you to fall 18” at 180kv you’re DEAD. Sorry, game over.

The effect is pretty but not worth your life.

-- The hump with the stump and the pump!

View pottz's profile

pottz

8313 posts in 1658 days


#2 posted 01-11-2020 08:52 PM

this message cant be repeated enough,i know a bunch of guys here love to do it but my advice is dont,it’s not worth the risk no matter how beautiful the results may be,there are plenty of ways to make beautiful things from wood that dont involve electrocution.

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2606 posts in 1277 days


#3 posted 01-11-2020 09:10 PM


,there are plenty of ways to make beautiful things from wood that dont involve electrocution.

- pottz


+1 I’ve seen people get similar results on pens and other small items using jpegs of fractal images and laser engravers instead.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1367 posts in 3467 days


#4 posted 01-11-2020 11:14 PM

Sadly, it’s a permanent cure for stupid. Having worked near high voltage for 42 years, there are many safety rules, and a lot of expensive equipment needed to do the work safely. A lot of training is a requirement for a long life in the world of high voltage electricity. It’s not something learned from u tube.
IT IS JUST NOT WORTH THE RISK!!!! What is your life worth? How many times must we see another death from this??

View pottz's profile

pottz

8313 posts in 1658 days


#5 posted 01-11-2020 11:50 PM

hey jim jakosh are you reading this my friend,please stop doing this,even though you might think it’s safe,we need you here,ALIVE BUDDY!!!!

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

View corelz125's profile

corelz125

1095 posts in 1650 days


#6 posted 01-12-2020 12:16 AM

Aren’t they making a safer version to do this now? Is Jim still doing it or he stopped?

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2606 posts in 1277 days


#7 posted 01-12-2020 12:22 AM


Ronny was using the machine he bought with all the safety equipment needed. Apparently the machine shorted, went to ground, and his death was the outcome. He was making a custom table when it happened.

I have to wonder since the project was a table, if he was reaching to the middle and he got too close making contact at the waist? At this point it doesn’t matter as it doesn’t change the outcome but serves as a good reminder to the rest of us as something to avoid.

So apparently it was a commercial machine and he was using the proper safety equipment. Everybody knows it’s dangerous kinda like wingsuit flying. The problem is that people use the machine without understanding the science and potential danger and the proper steps to take to avoid accidents. None of the utube videos address that other than a cursory aside and don’t go into real depth. On any forum when this comes up woodworkers say “it looks beautiful” and woodworkers who are also retired electrical workers say “you must be crazy!”

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View pottz's profile

pottz

8313 posts in 1658 days


#8 posted 01-12-2020 12:27 AM


Ronny was using the machine he bought with all the safety equipment needed. Apparently the machine shorted, went to ground, and his death was the outcome. He was making a custom table when it happened.

I have to wonder since the project was a table, if he was reaching to the middle and he got too close making contact at the waist? At this point it doesn t matter as it doesn t change the outcome but serves as a good reminder to the rest of us as something to avoid.

Everybody knows it s dangerous kinda like wingsuit flying. The problem is that people use the machine without understanding the science and potential danger and the proper steps to take to avoid accidents. None of the utube videos address that other than a cursory aside and don t go into real depth. On any forum when this comes up woodworkers say it looks beautiful and woodworkers who are retired electrical workers say “you must be crazy!”

- Andybb


yeah theirs a reason they say it’s crazy,listen to them guys !

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

View SMP's profile

SMP

1878 posts in 579 days


#9 posted 01-12-2020 12:54 AM

The saddest part is this looks like a short lived fad. I mean the first time i saw it I thought it looked kind of cool, kind of like the epoxy “river” tables, or “live edge” tables. But in a couple years it will look dated. I remember when i was a kid I wanted one of those brass lamps with the fiber optic strands that lit up. So cool when they came out! For a year or so.

View MSquared's profile

MSquared

1009 posts in 588 days


#10 posted 01-12-2020 01:11 AM

Folks! Heed the words of Ibewjon and the others – We’ve said this in the past. It bears repeating. Don’t mess with it! To simplify … just look at lightning!! That came close for me on a few occasions while boating over the years. In my business, high voltage/amperage cables are routinely laid out on street curb sides in Manhattan and elsewhere. Rain/Snow/Sleet/Ice are factors. Dangerous! These are completely off-limits, cordoned off, until the Head Electrician deems it safe!! No questions!! Now, messing around in your workshop without the ‘expertise’? Put me in your Will! And …. for what??!!

-- Marty, Long Island, NY

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2606 posts in 1277 days


#11 posted 01-12-2020 01:12 AM

Yeah but couldn’t you just use a jpeg with a laser engraver or a CNC, paint it to fill it in then sand it? It is a cool effect.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1367 posts in 3467 days


#12 posted 01-12-2020 01:26 AM

Paint is a great option. And safe!!!

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

991 posts in 1262 days


#13 posted 01-12-2020 01:28 AM

Part of the allure is the uncontrolled aspect that is the art. But, yeah, this be dumb.

-- The hump with the stump and the pump!

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1367 posts in 3467 days


#14 posted 01-12-2020 01:33 AM

42 years ago, a classmate in the apprenticeship was working with his father, but was moved to another job. The next day his father came in contact with a high voltage cable. The end. He has always been thankful he was not there to see it. Another friend was burned in an arc flash, a type of electrical explosion. Took months of painful recovery. He was lucky, he lived. And these are experienced workers. Without training, PLEASE DON’T TRY IT!!!

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

1367 posts in 3467 days


#15 posted 01-12-2020 01:35 AM

Try painting with your eyes closed. Messy, but safe.

showing 1 through 15 of 20 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com