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Forum topic by TopamaxSurvivor posted 10-09-2011 09:47 AM 2141 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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19815 posts in 4589 days

10-09-2011 09:47 AM

Topic tags/keywords: sawstop injury cost table saw

$2.36B in injury costs on a product having a retail market value of $300-400M gives me reason to reconsider my opinion.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

12 replies so far

View hooky's profile


365 posts in 4232 days

#1 posted 10-09-2011 01:17 PM

there is a lesson to be learned here

forget about finger sensing technology

invest in a riving knife and a crown guard that covers the blade

here is my table saw as an example

use these correctly and the article says the risk is seriously reduced

Just my two cents


-- Happiness is a way of travel , not a destination (Roy Goodman)

View ajosephg's profile


1890 posts in 4474 days

#2 posted 10-09-2011 02:23 PM

I’d like to see the breakdown of the $2.36B. I’ll bet it is all injury’s, not just cuts that a SawStop would prevent.

-- Joe

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

5311 posts in 4873 days

#3 posted 10-09-2011 04:09 PM

I wonder when chisels will be outlawed??
Could an “anti-dumba$$” kitchen knife be developed?
Oh well…...the discussion will go on and on.

-- [email protected]

View mski's profile


442 posts in 4893 days

#4 posted 10-09-2011 04:43 PM

I agree, I cut myself in the kitchen and bathroom way more than on my TS.
Also I don’t know how many of you have been to the ER $$$$ lately but $2.36 B isn’t that many trips considering how many TS are out there


View crank49's profile


4032 posts in 3884 days

#5 posted 10-09-2011 04:48 PM

According to reports I have seen over the past year, that $2.36B included such devastating injuries as some moron falling off the stool he was using as a ladder and hit his head on the table saw’s table. The data does not differentiate between being CUT with a table saw, AMPUTATING a limb with a table saw, or STRAINING your back while in a wood shop sweeping the floor. They are just injuries, period.

I have said it before, but I’ll say it again, the saw stop technology is as good as it gets. As an engineer I understand exactly how it works and it is brilliant.

If I could get it on a $300 to $800 saw by paying $150 to $200 more, I would not consider any other option. If this price point were acheivable and no manufacturer is willing to offer it, they deserve the regulations that are apparently coming.

View ChrisCrafts's profile


107 posts in 3498 days

#6 posted 10-09-2011 07:54 PM

People are completely irrational on the subject of Sawstop. If it were as simple as “People are stupid” or “make a safe kitchen knife” then Sawstop wouldn’t be outselling Delta, Jet & Powermatic combined with a product that can cost up to $1,000 more.

I once posted a link to an Article about Sawstop and didn’t even express any opinion on the article. You would have thought I was the Anti Christ.

Wanna see proof of what Sawstop has done to the Table Saw market. Do a nationwide search for Cabinet Saws. Commercial & Institutional Shops across the country are making the change to Sawstops. Regardless of anyone else’s opinion they can’t risk having anything but a Sawstop in their shops.

-- Chris, Washington The State!

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


19815 posts in 4589 days

#7 posted 10-09-2011 08:05 PM

Rather than pay a license fee of any size, I am sure the manufacturers all will try to wait out the patent to do it for free. The big three never did pay anything to the guy that invented the wiper delay in the 60s, but they all used it. He was in his 80s when he finally settled for a $100K. When asked why he settled for so little, he said he would be dead before justice was done.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


19815 posts in 4589 days

#8 posted 10-09-2011 08:33 PM

ChrisCrafts That does not surprise me. Construction projects are going to daily safety plans for every man on the crew.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View pierce85's profile


508 posts in 3475 days

#9 posted 10-09-2011 08:55 PM

Here’s a link to a PDF of the CPSC 2003 estimates of power tool injury costs –

Pages 9-14 provide graphs that disaggregate the “Power Tools and Workshop Equipment” category into their sub-categories, one of which is “Bench or table saws.” Remember, these are estimates and not real costs as the CPSC explains. No one knows the real costs because that study has yet to be done.

The 2003 report estimates for “Bench or table saws” injuries was $1.967 billion dollars, which does not include such things as “falling off a stool” or “straining your back.” The overall, aggregated injury estimate of “Power Tools and Workshop Equipment” was $5.7 billion dollars in the 2003 report.

If you want a good summary of what this all means, you can read Robert Lang’s article, Table Saw Injuries-What is the Real Cost? –

By the way, Lang is one of the few (only?) magazine editors that actually does his homework. Asa Christiana, on the other hand, had his ass handed to him in his interview with Gass.

Note: the 2003 report estimates are based on 2001 data.

View glassyeyes's profile


137 posts in 4242 days

#10 posted 10-10-2011 03:07 AM

Third party testimony indicated that the additional manufacturing cost would be about $55 per saw. As pierce85 noted, Gass did a VERY good job rebutting Christiana’s questions. I agree with Topamax, this is a no-brainer. (But I guess I’m an old fart—I STILL think Osorio shouldn’t have gotten a dime.)

-- Now, where did I put those bandaids?

View pierce85's profile


508 posts in 3475 days

#11 posted 10-10-2011 05:25 AM

And if anyone is actually interested in reading the Consumer Product Safety Commission’s new ANPR (advance notice of proposed rulemaking), it’s readily available here –

If you want a good example of the level of detailed analysis put into this report (222 page document), go to the “Survey of Injuries Involving Stationary Saws, Table and Bench Saws, 2007-2008” which begins on the 140th page of the PDF file. This is a very thorough document and a great resource for understanding the history of this process.

Here’s a tidbit from pages 12-13 on the economic costs of saw-related injuries. If you want to know how they came up with these estimates….read the reports.

F. Economic Considerations

The Commission’s Injury Cost Model (“ICM”) uses empirically derived relationships between emergency department injuries estimated through NEISS and injuries treated in other settings (e.g., doctor’s offices, clinics) to estimate the number of injuries treated outside hospital emergency departments. Based on CPSC’s 2007–2008 special study, staff estimated that approximately 33,450 emergency department-treated blade contact injuries occurred annually over the 2-year period 2007–2008. From these 33,450 annual injuries, the ICM projects an annual total of 67,300 medically treated blade contact injuries with an associated injury cost of approximately $2.36 billion per year. CPSC staff determined that deaths resulting from blade contact during table saw use are rare and appear to be the result of secondary effects of the injuries (e.g., heart attack) rather than the injuries themselves. Accordingly economic costs from deaths have been excluded.

CPSC staff’s preliminary review showed that societal costs per blade contact injury amount to approximately $35,000. This includes costs for medical treatment, lost time from work, product liability litigation, and pain and suffering. The relatively high societal costs, compared to the $22,000 average cost for all medically treated consumer product related injuries, reflect the high costs associated with amputations and the relatively high hospitalization rate associated with these injuries.

CPSC staff’s preliminary review also showed that the expected present value of the societal costs of blade contact injuries over the life of a table saw is substantial. Therefore, an effective performance-based table saw standard potentially could result in significant reductions in the injury costs associated with blade contact. However, current systems designed to address blade contact injuries on table saws appear to be costly and could substantially increase the retail cost of table saws, especially among the least expensive bench saws.

View bluekingfisher's profile


1333 posts in 3893 days

#12 posted 10-10-2011 10:11 AM

Nice money if you can get it

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

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