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HSS for plough plane iron.

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Forum topic by AESamuel posted 12-11-2019 05:11 PM 387 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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AESamuel

100 posts in 1832 days


12-11-2019 05:11 PM

Hi,

I’m just wondering whether HSS would be suitable for making small plough plane irons out of. (specifically for a record 43)
Getting some HSS lathe blanks on ebay would be a lot cheaper than buying some O1 steel and I also wouldn’t need to worry about hardening them either.

I know HSS is hard stuff but I have diamond plates for sharpening.

Any thoughts of advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Asa


11 replies so far

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SMP

1605 posts in 515 days


#1 posted 12-11-2019 06:06 PM

Is it more for fun/experimentation? Wondering why not just buy some plow irons?

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HokieKen

12010 posts in 1748 days


#2 posted 12-11-2019 06:44 PM

HSS isn’t ideal probably but I imagine it will work. Sharpening is the bigger hurdle. Diamonds aren’t ideal for sharpening HSS. You’ll be better off using a powered grinder with AO or SiC abrasives.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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Andre

3017 posts in 2415 days


#3 posted 12-11-2019 08:55 PM

Any time I have made any blades from HSS/tool steel, I anneal it, shape it, then re-temper it? any time you grind on the steel you loose the temper anyways.

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

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AESamuel

100 posts in 1832 days


#4 posted 12-12-2019 10:16 AM

Thanks for the replies all!


Is it more for fun/experimentation? Wondering why not just buy some plow irons?

- SMP

Partly for cost reasons, but also for custom sizes. Saying that, I do enjoy making my own tools, that’s basically half of my hobby!


HSS isn t ideal probably but I imagine it will work. Sharpening is the bigger hurdle. Diamonds aren t ideal for sharpening HSS. You ll be better off using a powered grinder with AO or SiC abrasives.

- HokieKen

I’m planning on shaping them/grinding primary bevels on a bench grinder so sharpening them on there wouldn’t be much of an issue. In my admittedly limited experience, plough plane irons don’t need to be hair popping sharp to get good results. The diamond plates and ceramic stones I have should at least allow me to get a finer edge if need be?


Any time I have made any blades from HSS/tool steel, I anneal it, shape it, then re-temper it? any time you grind on the steel you loose the temper anyways.

- Andre

Interesting, it was my understanding that hss has to be heated much higher than say, o1, to lose its temper, hence why people sharpen hss lathe tools and drill bits on a grinder without any issues of retaining hardness.

What methods do you use to heat and quench the hss?

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Andre

3017 posts in 2415 days


#5 posted 12-12-2019 11:41 PM

Interesting, it was my understanding that hss has to be heated much higher than say, o1, to lose its temper, hence why people sharpen hss lathe tools and drill bits on a grinder without any issues of retaining hardness.
What methods do you use to heat and quench the hss?

I follow the rule if you can’t touch it, it’s to hot ! any bluing and temper is gone,
I heat with MAPP torch to cherry red then quench in canola oil followed by a 1 to 2 hour heat treat at 350/400 degrees, slow cool down. Most of the small blades I have made are from old files or saw blades. Very seldom use a power grinder to sharpen, only to shape, have a hand powered grind wheel for hollow grinds and lathe tools:)

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

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MrRon

5812 posts in 3853 days


#6 posted 12-13-2019 06:01 PM



Hi,

I m just wondering whether HSS would be suitable for making small plough plane irons out of. (specifically for a record 43)
Getting some HSS lathe blanks on ebay would be a lot cheaper than buying some O1 steel and I also wouldn t need to worry about hardening them either.

I know HSS is hard stuff but I have diamond plates for sharpening.

Any thoughts of advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Asa

- AESamuel

Beware of buying HSS blanks off Ebay. Not all HSS is HSS. Steel from China may say HSS, but may be an inferior grade of steel. Diamond should not be used for shaping, but can be used as a final sharpening once the blade has been 99% shaped. Diamond tends to get clogged when used on steel, so should only be used as a final “touch-up”. Diamond can be used if it is kept wet with water. That washes away the steel particles that would clog the diamond plate.

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HokieKen

12010 posts in 1748 days


#7 posted 12-13-2019 06:23 PM

You won’t/can’t destroy the temper on HSS Asa. It’s very different than high carbon steels. Grind it til it’s blue, brown, black. Hell, grind it until it melts and it’ll still be hard. You also can’t anneal or harden HSS at home. It takes very high temperatures and very controlled temperature rise rate to change the internal structure. In other words, get some and go to town on it without fear ;-)

Like Mr. Ron said though, not all HSS is created equal and some of the import stuff may not even be what it claims to be. For a plow plane though, even low quality should be fine though.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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Redoak49

4356 posts in 2598 days


#8 posted 12-13-2019 09:23 PM

I just looked up high speed steel and was a bit confused. It appears to be a generic term for a group of steels with quite a range in composition based upon several sources. This also implies a range of appropriate heat treating.

I would think that knowing the exact grade of HSS would enable one to properly heat great it.

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HokieKen

12010 posts in 1748 days


#9 posted 12-13-2019 09:41 PM

There are 3 basic types of HSS depending on the alloying element that’s dominant. Tungsten (rarely used anymore) Molybdenum and Cobalt. The Molybdenum is by far the most common type and there are several grades of it. M2 is by far the most common. If you find HSS blanks or tools that don’t specifically state that it’s some other type/grade, then it’s M2.

You can certainly find the heat treating recipe for the different HSS online. The issue with doing so at home is that it requires a maintained temperature rise schedule for normalizing. It’s not like O1 or other high carbon steels where you just have to heat it with a torch/forge to martensitic then quench it.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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Derek Cohen

482 posts in 4578 days


#10 posted 12-16-2019 05:46 PM



Any time I have made any blades from HSS/tool steel, I anneal it, shape it, then re-temper it? any time you grind on the steel you loose the temper anyways.

- Andre


You have got to share with us how you anneal HSS?!!!

Even if you could – and I doubt that you can unless you have professional equipment – it is unneceassry. One of the advantages of HSS is that you can grind it red hot, and it will not burn. I have made a number of both plane and chisel blades from HSS (M2) and they work just fine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

482 posts in 4578 days


#11 posted 12-16-2019 05:48 PM



Hi,

I m just wondering whether HSS would be suitable for making small plough plane irons out of. (specifically for a record 43)
Getting some HSS lathe blanks on ebay would be a lot cheaper than buying some O1 steel and I also wouldn t need to worry about hardening them either.

I know HSS is hard stuff but I have diamond plates for sharpening.

Any thoughts of advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Asa

- AESamuel

Asa, sure, there is no issue with HSS blanks for blades.

However, the finest blades I have used with a Record #043 are the blades made by Veritas for the Small Plow. This will give you a wider range of sizes and types.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

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