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Grizzly 1023SL Noise Issue

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Forum topic by Kevin posted 09-24-2019 08:29 PM 936 views 0 times favorited 25 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Kevin

508 posts in 3976 days


09-24-2019 08:29 PM

Topic tags/keywords: table saw grizzly 1023

I’ve had this saw for 10 years and it has been great to say the least. Sunday night I went to cut some maple and when I turned the saw off I noticed a strange noise coming from it. It was not the smooth and quite noise I have been used to all these years, but it was not a noise such as a high pitch whine or metal grinding against another object, but rather a dull sound. I am wondering if any other people have had an issue with their TS’s where possibly a bearing or loose belt could be the culprit?

I have not been in the garage since this has happened to take the belt off to inspect it. Is there an easy way to tighten the belt? I did try and listen before I left the garage that night with the blade off and it almost sounded like it could be coming from the motor fan, but I cannot say for sure since I have not done any troubleshooting yet on it.

What would be the first step to troubleshooting? Is it difficult to re-tension the vbelt in case it has become stretched over the years?

Thanks,

kevin

-- Williamsburg, KY


25 replies so far

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CaptainKlutz

3165 posts in 2265 days


#1 posted 09-25-2019 06:15 AM

1) Adjusting the belt tension is simple.
Loosen the motor bolts and it moves up and down to adjust the position of pulley.

2) Did it happen to sound like a low pitch soft growl as it powered down?

If yes, that can mean the bearings are running dry and need replaced.
The growl at power down is result of slight unbalance and extra vibration as belts slow. The vibration puts side strain on bearings. When the grease gets old, it turns to waxy solid, and you have nearly metal on metal, which in early stages sounds like a low pitched growl. As the issue gets worse, it will turn into a screeching metal on metal sound.

BTW – Could be arbor bearings, motor bearings, or both.

Bearing testing is easy.
1) Remove the belts.
2) power up motor, let it run 30 seconds and power down.
if makes noise, fix the motor. Could be bearing, could be loose cooling fan, or centrifugal switch issue.
: check the motor shaft for play or any roughness as it turns.
If find rough spots, or play; then it is time for motor bearings.
: Not bearings? Pull the fan cover and check that fan is not loose.
: Check arbor bearings same for play or roughness issues also. Replace if needed.

IME – 10 years is about normal lifetime for Chinese bearings used on hobby power tools. They last maybe 3-5 years in hard continuous use. Replace with decent US, Japanese bearings and they should last longer. Even the bearings from Taiwan or Korea are better than Chinese brands. YMMV

Best Luck!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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Brawler

150 posts in 601 days


#2 posted 09-25-2019 10:59 AM

+1 on everything the captain said, and I would also check for a loose pulley just for grins.

-- Daniel, Pontiac, MI

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Eric

212 posts in 1008 days


#3 posted 09-25-2019 01:06 PM

As far as finding bearings not made in China, where are you buying them? In the last year I’ve rebuilt two jointers, two bandsaws, a belt sander and three Shopsmith power heads with motors. After purchasing over 50 bearings from local stockists, famous internet suppliers and ebay i was able to buy two bearings not made in China (France). The brand may not be Chinese but the origin is…..

OP, if you aren’t able to tear down your 1023 and replace the bearings yourself (using a bearing puller set and hydraulic press) it’s likely that the cost to pay someone will quickly approach the value of your 10 year old 1023. There’s lots of new Chinese stuff to be had cheap!

-- Eric

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Kevin

508 posts in 3976 days


#4 posted 09-25-2019 01:48 PM

Captain,

I will try and get in the garage this evening and perform those suggestions. I do believe it it was a low growl noise after powering down, but yesterday evening when I went back out there and brushed off the dust around the inside it does not make the noise on powering down, but there is a low growling noise somewhat when the motor is running.

I did take off the fan housing and fan off the motor, but the sound still persist, probably not as much, but it still does not sound quite and smooth like I am used to. I’ll report back with what I find out this evening.

Thanks everyone!

Kevin

-- Williamsburg, KY

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CaptainKlutz

3165 posts in 2265 days


#5 posted 09-25-2019 02:05 PM


As far as finding bearings not made in China, where are you buying them?
- Eric

My lowest cost local bearing suppler (Bearing Belt & Chain) stocks SKF and Nachi brand. I’m lucky, as their Nachi prices are same or lower than any online store. A more expensive place for when everyone else is out of stock, sells SKF & NSK branded bearings. One of Phoenix largest industrial motor shops sells SKF (US) as top of line, NTN (Japan/Taiwan) as mid tier, and Chinese as last resort.
I use mostly Nachi, or NTN brands when rebuilding my tools.
Will admit that in some smaller common bearing sizes, like 1” type used on conveyor rollers or skate boards; Chinese made bearings are only type available in stock locally. A 10 pack is $6-$8, so I guess it’s not surprising. But for 6202-6306 type bearings found in 1-5HP electric motors, non-Chinese are easy to find?
YMMV

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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Kevin

508 posts in 3976 days


#6 posted 09-25-2019 02:29 PM

Update.

Here is the video I took last night. Hopefully this will help some.

YouTube Video
https://youtu.be/asaHcn6B05w

-- Williamsburg, KY

View CaptainKlutz's profile (online now)

CaptainKlutz

3165 posts in 2265 days


#7 posted 09-25-2019 02:51 PM

That sounds like arbor bearings to me?

Pull the belts, rotate arbor and motor by hand. Should be zero roughness, and turn smooth, with slight resistance. It it freewheels after turning, or feels like sand in bearings; replace both motor and arbor bearings.

PS – before you remove belts, check tension per manual.
Note that too much tension is bad thing. It you pull on belts too hard, you wear out bearings faster due side loading. The belts should deflect 1/2-3/4” with light push in middle between the pulleys.
Only mention this, as the frequency of the growl coincides with the possible appearance of too much belt tension on arbor?

Your Grizzly is clone of Unisaw. Has same design, and repair methods. There are hundreds of posts in WWW on repairing Unisaw arbor bearings, if you don’t find much for Grizzly models.

#IAMAKLUTZ that has rebuilt several Unisaw and other power tools, not an expert on Grizzly 1023. YMMV

Hope this helps.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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Kevin

508 posts in 3976 days


#8 posted 09-25-2019 03:01 PM

Captain,

Thanks for the info and suggestions. I did try and see how much tension the belts had on them and they did push in probably 1/2” at least. I have never re-tensioned the belts as grizzly suggest after so many hours of use as I just did not think of it. I was actually thinking when I did this there was not enough tension lol.

Good to know the 1023 is basically a clone of the unisaw then. Would probably have much more results than what grizzly was coming up with lol.

I’ll post updates later tonight after I get off work.

Thanks,

Kevin

-- Williamsburg, KY

View woodetal's profile

woodetal

65 posts in 543 days


#9 posted 09-25-2019 04:21 PM

Great comments by all. My 1023 had some noise, not much. But, I noticed the blade wobble after detecting some blade marks on cuts. I replaced all the bearings/parts from Grizzly. NOTE: THe belts from Grizz did not fit. Not even close. So I replaced with the old belts. Aligning the motor belt pulley mount with the arbor was interesting. There was a distinct angle/deflection using the original mount positions. So, I remounted the motor pulley mount in a better position—arguably in alignment. The belts were not going to fit no matter what. Nice to have this information for the next refit. I have had my 1023 for @16 years of weekend project use.

View Kevin's profile

Kevin

508 posts in 3976 days


#10 posted 09-25-2019 08:36 PM

Decided to ahead and do some testing. It looks like it could be the bearing on the outside of the motor. Listening to you can tell the sound increases to it’s loudest when touching the right side of the outside part of the motor. Taking each piece off there was a small bolt/screw (guess it goes to the switch) inside the motor, but barely turning it snapped the bolt in half so I guess I’ll have to drill that out. Here is a video of the motor.

The pulleys seemed in good shape and as you can hear it only happens when it’s running now instead of shutting down. Guess I need to find the part # for some Nachi bearings for the 1023SL just to be safe.

YouTube Video
https://youtu.be/5cdZ7308_Qc

-- Williamsburg, KY

View Eric's profile

Eric

212 posts in 1008 days


#11 posted 09-25-2019 09:32 PM


As far as finding bearings not made in China, where are you buying them?
- Eric

My lowest cost local bearing suppler (Bearing Belt & Chain) stocks SKF and Nachi brand. I m lucky, as their Nachi prices are same or lower than any online store. A more expensive place for when everyone else is out of stock, sells SKF & NSK branded bearings. One of Phoenix largest industrial motor shops sells SKF (US) as top of line, NTN (Japan/Taiwan) as mid tier, and Chinese as last resort.
I use mostly Nachi, or NTN brands when rebuilding my tools.
Will admit that in some smaller common bearing sizes, like 1” type used on conveyor rollers or skate boards; Chinese made bearings are only type available in stock locally. A 10 pack is $6-$8, so I guess it s not surprising. But for 6202-6306 type bearings found in 1-5HP electric motors, non-Chinese are easy to find?
YMMV

- CaptainKlutz

I bought bearings from all the suppliers you listed and every one was from China. 6202, 6203, etc. The only non-china supplier was FAG, they were made in France. The origin is on the rubber seals.

-- Eric

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CaptainKlutz

3165 posts in 2265 days


#12 posted 09-25-2019 09:58 PM

Hmm, ’ Bearing on outside of motor’
There is none outside?

You mean the click? It is normal. That is centrifugal switch turning ON as motor slows down. The switch puts the start capacitor into the circuit, until the motor is above a certain speed and doesn’t need it anymore. Am guessing that is where the screw you broke off resides?

FWIW – The reason I suggest it is arbor bearings, is ‘tone’ of the noise. When the arbor bearing wears, and vibrates it has slight warble/rattle of cast iron trunions in combination with growl, like your 1st video. It is a very distinctive sound once you hear it couple of times. LOL The 2nd recording, I can hear the upper castings vibrating and don’t see any motor shake.
Plus, If it was motor bearings, it would make the same noise with belts removed.

Did you run the motor with belts off and check for noise?
Can run motor with fan removed for a few seconds to test.

Doesn’t really matter: If either the motor or arbor bearings are noisy, best to replace both at same time. If you only replace one or other; you will be replacing the second set of bearings within a year or less. It no fun tearing into a saw twice in same year, so if that saw where mine, would be replacing bearings in motor and arbor right now.

Bearings needed are:
Arbor: (2) #38 PN: P1023SL038 desc: BEARING 6203-2RS
https://www.grizzly.com/parts/Grizzly-BALL-BEARING-6203-2RS/P1023SL038

Motor: Bearing not listed in parts index. Need to pull them, read number, and order some.

Be surprised if didn’t find 6205zz on shaft end, and 6203zz on opposite end, just like this 3HP unisaw replacement motor:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Motor-3-HP-Single-Phase-3450-RPM-220V-For-G1023Z/H5387
https://www.grizzly.com/parts/Grizzly-BALL-BEARING-6203ZZ/P6203ZZ
https://www.grizzly.com/parts/Grizzly-BALL-BEARING-6205ZZ/P6205ZZ

Have rebuilt four 3hp saw/planer motors in last 6 months, and they all used the same combo.
But again, this klutz makes a lot of mistakes.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View Kevin's profile

Kevin

508 posts in 3976 days


#13 posted 09-25-2019 10:30 PM

HI Captain,

LOL, should have explained that one a little better :)

I saw the click and I guess it’s the switch you were talking about which I thought was normal since I heard that since day one. That is exactly where the screw broke off as I was going to start taking that off. Guess they used loctite or something on it perhaps?

I didn’t see any motor shake either.
I will check hopefully tonight and take the belts off to see if it makes a noise or not. Like you suggested, it is 10 years old and I would rather just tear into it 1 time so might as well replace what I need to now while I am at it.

Is this the correct part# from Nachi for the arbor bearings?
https://www.ebay.com/p/1154890497?iid=302118564767&rt=nc

FAG Bearing
https://www.ebay.com/p/1601806469

These are just the first links I found btw.

Thanks again, you have provided lots of helpful information here.

I’ll post back once I test some more later tonight.

Thanks everyone!

Kevin

-- Williamsburg, KY

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Kevin

508 posts in 3976 days


#14 posted 09-26-2019 01:32 AM

Looks like I’ll have to wait until I have more time. Appears I have to take the entire top off and then remove the arbor to get to the other bolt on the motor so I can remove the belts. If they were not allen wrench type bolts I could probably get something in there to break them loose.

Kevin

-- Williamsburg, KY

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CaptainKlutz

3165 posts in 2265 days


#15 posted 09-26-2019 02:19 AM

LOL, BTDTGTTS
FWIW – learned long time ago, need to have socket wrenches for Allen head bolts on Asian made stuff.
HF has reasonably priced Pittsburgh sets with lifetime warranty if they break.
When I bought them didn’t think I would use much, so bought cheapest HF. I use the 13pc metric set all time, small ones for WWW tools, and large ones for various vehicle repairs.
https://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece-38-and-12-drive-metric-hex-bit-socket-set-67880.html

The bearings posted seem OK? I buy bearings local as online PN differences between mfg, and chasing free/lowest cost shipping game drives me nuts? Once I called around and find someone local with prices comparable to cheap average online, I stopped even looking on WWW for bearings anymore, unless I need something special.

For reference, happen to have my invoice at my desk from a recent trip to bearing store:
I paid $5.46 for 6203-ZZ bearings (Z usually mean metal shield to keep dust out, ZZ or 2Z is both sides) and $6.80 for 6203-2RS bearings (RS usually means rubber sealed and shielded) at my local shop last month. The 6205-ZZ are bigger more expensive bearings than smaller 6203, they cost me $9.89 last trip.

Additionally information that might help:
Inside motor, typically use only shielded bearings, for couple reasons. Sealed versions add some drag and generate more heat. Motor bearings for WWW tools are always inside a Totally Enclosed, Fan-Cooled (TEFC) motor, and don’t need the extra seal. But for arbor bearings exposed directly to sawdust, use the rubber sealed (RS) versions.

Post if you have any more issues, as not sure I have any further wisdom of use?

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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