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Forum topic by Karda posted 09-14-2019 05:01 AM 1229 views 1 time favorited 46 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Karda

1714 posts in 1067 days


09-14-2019 05:01 AM

i have been turning a couple years now, and if I have enough lucky accidents I can turn a piece I’ll admit to turning then I sand it and and it turns to a piece of junk. I have tried every thing but I may get out the tool mark maybe not but I end up with more marks when Iam done than when I started makes me want to quit.


46 replies so far

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Andre

2806 posts in 2319 days


#1 posted 09-14-2019 06:10 AM

Find a local turning club, nothing beats seeing someone actually doing it!

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

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wildwoodbybrianjohns

333 posts in 60 days


#2 posted 09-14-2019 08:06 AM

I am not a turner, so I cant really help you out; except to say, when I need info about something I dont know how to do, I google/youtube and watch a load of other guys doing it, then I copy them, make mistakes, and eventually get good at it.

-- Wildwood by Brian Johns: It is wiser to find out, than to suppose (S. Clemens)

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DaDijionDon

21 posts in 245 days


#3 posted 09-14-2019 09:25 AM



”.. then I sand it and and it turns to a piece of junk. I have tried every thing but I may get out the tool mark maybe not but I end up with more marks when Iam done than when I started makes me want to quit.”

- Karda

Hmmm, this is a bit confusing without more information, such as what wood do you generally use, what type and brand of lathe chisels, what type, brand, and in what order do you … sand.. haha. Maybe I’ll just tell you what I figured out instead.

First things first. If you are turning dry blanks, anytime you cut across endgrain you are very likely to get that ugly tear out that is so time consuming to sand smooth. This can be the wood, your technique, your tools not being sharp.. whatever it is, my solution is the same. I stop short of my final profile by somewhere near 3/8” if I’m having and grain tear out issues. Then starting with 60 grit sandpaper and the lathe running, I will use my 6” Bosch, my 5” makita random orbital, my belt sander, sometimes even my angle grinder with a chainsaw tooth blade (I highly recommend NOT doing this, its absurdly dangerous).. and force my will into the bowl with sweat and dust and occasionally blood. Only go up to 100-120 using larger power tools, but use each and every grit on the way up, and that goes for ANY sanding you want to look good. Especially bowls. (See my profile photo for evidence of what not skipping grits can do. That was 80-10000 grit, I’m sure I didn’t have every grit once I got above 400, but I had enough.)

Anyway, now that the bowl is profiles with power Sanders you need to switch to either hand sanding, starting over at 80 grit, or, if you have to money I highly recommend checking out Vinces Woodńwonders and/or the other one with a very similar name. And get a 90° or angled drill outfitted with 2” and 3” sanding pads. ... it takes a bit of practice, but once you get it down, and remember you can’t rush or take shortcuts.. you’ll start getting results that remind you why you bought the lathe in the first place.

“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.”

^^^ don’t listen to Theodore Rosevelt, he had some sort of personality disorder. Listen to your inner procurement specialist and get more power tools, I swear it might help. 100% maybe for sure.

-- Listen!.... Do you smell that?

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Karda

1714 posts in 1067 days


#4 posted 09-14-2019 10:02 AM

here are pics of the bowl the first is 80 grit the second is sanded to 320 grit, I don’t see any difference and i can’t figure out what I am doing wrong, I went back to 60 grit and started over with the same results. I do use power sometimes. This is green maple but happens with other woods as well. I belong to a turning club but those kinds of thing don’t happen at our meeting. there are demonstration but no hands on. I have never seen a video where there were closeups of sanding and the results and what don’t. all i have seen are this is what to do not what not do with picture of the defects. What i need is somebody standing at my side telling me when I am wrong

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hairy

2935 posts in 4045 days


#5 posted 09-14-2019 12:24 PM

Let’s say that you have sanded with 80 grit with the lathe powered. Before you go to the next higher grit, sand by hand, with the grain, with 80 grit. If you create scratches with 80 grit, you will NOT get them out with 120 or higher grit.

-- Genghis Khan and his brother Don, couldn't keep on keeping on...

View mike02719's profile

mike02719

153 posts in 4299 days


#6 posted 09-14-2019 12:30 PM

Those are definitely sanding marks. Green wood can be difficult to finish, but you said it happens on all your projects, so you need an answer to a common problem. First, what kind of sandpaper are you using? If you say HF, stop there. HF paper is crap, cheap crap, but none the less still crap. When I had similar problems, I bought some wet and dry premium sandpaper. It is not paper because you can wet it and it won’t fall apart. W/d sandpaper turns out cheaper because you can clean it with a small water spray and gently wire brush the dust out of it, let it dry and you are back in business. You can spray your work with citrus cleaner and wet sand with various grits with absolutely no dust or go the conventional route until you are happy. If your lathe will do it, reverse direction with each grit. Backing up your sandpaper with a sponge sanding pad will also help out. Whatever you do, keep asking and trying or take up golf if you really want to know what frustration is. Good luck and let us know what progress you see.

-- Mike, Massachusetts

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

683 posts in 1975 days


#7 posted 09-14-2019 01:19 PM

I only see one photo, and if that one is 80 grit, I would expect that from 80. You see the scratches go with the spin of the lathe. That is where power sanding helps. The sanding disk is spinning at the same time the lathe is spinning so it helps to remove the scratches. So I would step to let’s say 120 next. And power sand till all the lines are gone. You cannot move to a finer grit till you get all the lines out.
Sometimes its difficult to see if you got every little blemish out of it. So I will take a damp paper towel. Water or alcohol, and wipe it down. It will expose anything you missed. It will also raise the grain, but that ok, since you are not done sanding anyway. Once you get all the marks out of it with 120. You will go through the grits very quickly to get it a smooth as you wish.
So 80 is very course. I never go that course unless I’m trying to shape with Sandpaper. If all you were trying to do is
remove scratches and tear out, I would start with 150. Maybe 120 if they’re really bad. And you just have to stay with that Grit until there are no more marks of any kind before moving to the next grit.
Also what speed are you sanding at? I tend to power sand a little fast. Let’s say 700-1000 rpm. And hand sand generally under 400. But that’s all subject to how it feels. You have been at it long enough to know every piece responds different to speed.

-- John

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Lazyman

3987 posts in 1901 days


#8 posted 09-14-2019 03:44 PM

I know that I have mentioned this to you before but for me wet sanding with Howard’s Feed and Wax has helped me erase many tool marks problems, especially in difficult woods like walnut, and especially in the coarser grits. Rotary sanding also helps tremendously (I usually do that dry). I really don’t like power sanding with a disk, though I do use it when there are some really rough spots with some significant tear out for example that I need to clean up. My favorite rotary sanding device is something like this, though I bought rather than made one. Mine looks like this but I think I got it on sale somewhere (Peachtree maybe?) for around $30-40. For the inside of bowls, a foam ball sander on a drill can be easier though I only use one on smaller stuff when I can’t use my regular device. Those can be pretty expensive but here is a David Reed Smith Article on making your own.

And if you haven’t read Doc Green's 3 part article on sanding, it is worth checking out to look for other tips.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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hairy

2935 posts in 4045 days


#9 posted 09-14-2019 04:39 PM

I try to avoid holding sandpaper in my bare hand at the lathe. I use this https://www.lumberjocks.com/reviews/10785

I found out fingers can cause grooves in the wood, a solid face against the wood doesn’t.

-- Genghis Khan and his brother Don, couldn't keep on keeping on...

View Karda's profile

Karda

1714 posts in 1067 days


#10 posted 09-14-2019 05:21 PM

first off my sandpaper is mostly from Klingspore, 320 is from Packard my 2” dicks are from china but they work I do wet sand but still the same problems. My biggest question is what is the wood supposed to look like after the grit. What are the tool marks and what are grit marks. I am try to achieve a given surface but I don’t know what I am looking. It like going deer hunting when you don’t know what a deer looks like. I have an inertial sander but same problem as with power. disks are not always on hand. I sand at 750RPM because that is my slowest speed. I oopsed there should have been 2 picture one at 80 grit and sanded to 320 grit. here are both thanks Mike

View clieb91's profile

clieb91

3664 posts in 4448 days


#11 posted 09-14-2019 05:34 PM

Karda, Just curious does your woodturning club have a mentor program? it is something that my local club has in place to help people get better with the hobby.
I do a lot more spindle turning which will generally come out smoother so hard to give advice. I know you siad you went from 80 to 320 just curious how many levels did you go through? I find the more levels and the closer they are the smoother the finish will end up with.

CtL

-- Chris L. "Don't Dream it, Be it."- PortablePastimes.com (Purveyors of Portable Fun and Fidgets)

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Jack Lewis

494 posts in 1591 days


#12 posted 09-14-2019 05:49 PM


here are pics of the bowl the first is 80 grit the second is sanded to 320 grit, I don t see any difference and i can t figure out what I am doing wrong, I went back to 60 grit and started over with the same results. I do use power sometimes. This is green maple but happens with other woods as well. I belong to a turning club but those kinds of thing don t happen at our meeting. there are demonstration but no hands on. I have never seen a video where there were closeups of sanding and the results and what don t. all i have seen are this is what to do not what not do with picture of the defects. What i need is somebody standing at my side telling me when I am wrong

- Karda


It would benefit you to sand across the tool marks also with the lathe OFF also untill they are gone with the same grit before going to the next grit. If you sand TOO hard with the 80 grit the scratches become deeper and harder to remove with the next grit. And sanding hard with a lot of pressure causes it to harden making it even harder to remove defects.

+ on wiping the blank down with thinner or water between grits to positively see the tool marks are gone.
BTW, thinner evaporates faster than water and doesn’t clog the sand paper.

-- "PLUMBER'S BUTT! Get over it, everybody has one"

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Karda

1714 posts in 1067 days


#13 posted 09-14-2019 06:12 PM

My club is an hour away and I don’t drive, getting help is no problem getting to the help is. The grits i typical sand are
88<100>150>220>320 then I use a diatomaciousus earth sanding paste its finer than Yorkshire grit. I try hand sanding cross grain and lighten up on the paper, I can get heavy handed. I can see the picture of the tool marks too small. I haven’t used the Howards because I use shellac for a finish and don’t think I can use that over wax other wise I would use the oil and beeswax i have Thanks Mike

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Andybb

2113 posts in 1117 days


#14 posted 09-14-2019 07:10 PM


Before you go to the next higher grit, sand by hand, with the grain, with 80 grit. If you create scratches with 80 grit, you will NOT get them out with 120 or higher grit.
- hairy

+1

The sanding disk is spinning at the same time the lathe is spinning so it helps to remove the scratches. So I would step to let s say 120 next. And power sand till all the lines are gone. You cannot move to a finer grit till you get all the lines out.
- bigJohninvegas

+1

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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Aj2

2497 posts in 2311 days


#15 posted 09-14-2019 07:19 PM

I can turn wood so my advise is to work on improving your tool work not your sanding.
I don’t have a very good lathe in my shop a older craftsman.
But it’s helped to develop some good techniques for turning bowls.
After the bowl gouge I use a round nose scraper high speed steel.
I set up the inside cut slightly below center and the outside slightly above center.
Try to get a surface that you can start sanding at 220.
If you have a junky lathe like me your going have longer road to learn.Theres vibrations and other factors working against me /you others.
Good luck

-- Aj

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