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jointer & planer buying advice

2K views 20 replies 15 participants last post by  Todd_R 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
All,

I'm looking to buy a jointer 8" or larger and a planer 15" or larger. I want to replace my existing benchtop planer and purchase my first power jointer with something I can be confident in that will be snip and tear out free with a final finish which I can lightly sand (avoiding a drum sander purchase). I'm convinced I am going to go with a spiral/helix cutter head on both.

I was looking at the Hammer A3-41 but I'm not exactly sold on that solution after some reviewing it. I've seen/heard of issues with snipe and concerns about tear out on wood with knots and/or crotch. I've heard of issues and the sales guy here locally showed me a board that he said came from the planer and it had snip on it. That and the hammer A3-41 isn't in stock and can't deliver for 4+ months unless I want to pay nearly $900 for shipping across country. So I'm lacking confidence in dropping that much cash on this let alone waiting until mid to late December (if they can deliver then).

I've look at the Grizzly as well but I'm always a bit disappointed with the quality of Grizzly products and rather pay a bit more for better quality. That and some of their spiral cutter heads, the blades are super expensive (nearly $10 each). Versus Byrd blades are in the neighborhood of $3.50 each. When you have nearly 100 blades to replace at some point (if you ever do) it could be an expensive proposition.

So I'm leaning towards a Powermatic individual planer (15" or 20" with the spiral cutter head) and jointer (probably PJ-882HH).

I'm relatively new to wood working and just wondering if there's any other decent quality options out there which users out there may have experience with and I just missed.

Regards,
Todd
 
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#2 ·
It sounds like you aren't really interested in searching the used tools avenue. I have nothing against PM except their pricing…that gold paint must be really gold. So i think those are good choices, but I'd also look at the Rikon offerings…I'm not sure I would pick them over the PM, but I'd sure give them consideration.
 
#5 ·
I have a friend who has the wood master 25" planer. amazing tool. There planers can also be used as a drum sander, and a gang rip saw, and a molder. He had been using it for all of the above. About a year ago he bought the Wood master 50" dual drum sander too.
I personally have used the planer, and drum sander feature on his 25" machine.
I tell myself I'm going to buy one someday. But as a hobbyist woodworker, and working out of my 3 car garage.
I'll probably won't buy my own as long as I can go use his when needed.

https://www.woodmastertools.com/category/planermolders/
 
#6 ·
Good Luck!
If you search, you will find hundreds of posts regarding differences and opinions on various jointers and planers.

FWIW:
The Powermatic planers are made in same Taiwan factory as Grizzly, and Jet. So can expect same general tool quality for each one, decent. There are machine differences which are subtle, and you have look very close to see why PM thinks they can charge more for gold paint. Key differences are motors, cutters, and magnetic starters.
- They use different cutter heads (type, insert count, helix .vs. spiral, etc), so look at details carefully.
- Powermatic is using more expensive USA branded motors, but they are still produced in Taiwan factories like Grizzly 'noname' motors.
-Grizzly uses TECO starters made in China, Powermatic uses Taiwan made motor starters.

BTW - Most of the EU machines are either made in China, or parts/sub assemblies are made in China/Malaysia - with final assembly in EU. This is one reason for ridiculous lead times. They essentially have a double length supply chain, internal and external. Hammer/Felder also run a lean supply chain, with minimal corporate warehouse inventories. They expect their distributors to make stock available for customers and cover the bank loans as tools sit in warehouse. If you want the Hammer, find a wealthy Hammer dealer and have to pay the shipping (as you found out).

IMHO - Industrial grade tools are not snipe free. Never met a 15" or 20" planer that was 100% snipe free, and I am rebuilding planer number 5 right now.

YMMV
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the feedback Aj2 and CaptianKlutz.
I'm surprised to hear and it is very concerning that one would encounter snip on a PM or similar planer. Is this just an adjustment thing? I'm just asking because I've not heard this before. In fact most reviews I have heard/seen comment otherwise. I'm not questioning you I'm just surprised to hear this. That said I am just getting my feet wet here and maybe I haven't seen or talked to the right people.
One of the main reasons for upgrading my benchtop planer is to avoid dealing with snipe. If the "industrial grade planers" still produce snipe commonly that it is making me have second thoughts and maybe I'll just stick with a crappy benchtop planer if that's the case. My existing benchtop planer does a pretty good job other than I have to replace the blades all the time and the snip sucks. I work around it by using a sled but if I would have to do the same thing on something like a PM, Grizzly, Hammer, etc. then I don't see the huge need to upgrade now.
 
#9 ·
LOL,
IMHO - Majority of snipe is due poor machine adjustments for lumber being run. Sometimes it is operator error, sometimes machine deficiency.

The big challenge with lunch box planers, most lack easy way to make adjustments. On opposite end of scale: Industrial units have so many adjustments, it takes awhile to learn which one is best to fix snipe for specific lumber being run. Since constantly making adjustments is pain in the arse, most folks find the least objectionable settings, and just run it for everything. AKA lunch box mode, hehe

While I say have never seen a machine 100% snipe free, it is possible to get very close to perfect?
Often I run lumber and worst case snipe is 0.001 on 1st end of board run and nothing in exit end. If I run boards back to back, I get zero snipe. The 0.001 difference is trivial and requires 10 seconds with sandpaper to remove.

IME - snipe comes from unavoidable physics of planing a board that is not 100% supported across it's entire length.
For me the unavoidable leading edge snipe is due the fact the when a board enters the cutter head, it is being pushed down by ONLY the in-feed roller. It is often beneficial to set up in-out feed tables with a small lift at end to counteract the pressure when only one roller is pressing down on board. But the proper amount of lift varies based on board length and weight; so there is no one perfect snipe free setting. If planing a couple hundred bdft of lumber, will often figure just how much extra lift to provide on ends of board to make snipe almost disappear.

Last but not least, owned 2 different lunch box planers. The snipe as often 0.010 or more, and very hard to eliminate. When I finally had money and shop large enough for 15" industrial planer, never regretted the upgrade. My snipe is less, and much more controllable.
The principle issue with larger planers is taking thin passes. They used segmented in-feed rollers to grab rough lumber, and with thin cuts, it can leave marks.

IN the end snipe or tool marks is irreverent in scheme of planers. Planers are designed to thin wood, not make it ready for finishing without sanding. Even the expensive fancy carbide insert helix heads leave tooling marks or snipe, and require sanding.

Best Luck.
 
#10 ·
There's so many different reasons why a planer snipes it nearly impossible to describe.
For the most part I plane wood that's been dressed flat from my jointer and always hope for the best before I send it through.
I used to have Dewalt 735 that didn't snipe. I sold it like a dumbass
I'm my logical way of thinking my floor planer is still better then the Dewalt.
It's so much faster and quieter .

Good Luck
 
#11 ·
The Hammer/Felder machines are in a different class from the rest. Look at Minimax/SCM, they are probably the closest competition to the Hammer.

I agree with Klutz, most snipe issues are due to improper machine setup.
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'll say regarding jointer and planer there is nothing wrong with Grizzly.

In fact, upon closer inspection my 20" Grizzly planer looks identical to a PM. That is because they are cast in the same foundry in Taiwan. But at 1/2 the cost. I've had the planer for 10 years and it does a great job.

I agree a planer should not snipe. Imthink bed rollers below are part of the problem. I lowered mine below the table surface, and any minor amount of snipe I did get disappeared completely.

I also have a Grizzly 8" jointer which I upgraded helical - no regrets on that. ;-).

IMO helical planer probably more important than jointer.

The combo units aren't for everyone. Personally I wouldn't want to deal with switching stuff around often times I'm going back and forth between jointer and planer.
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Which of your Grizzly tools are you dissatisfied with the quality of? I have a Griz 1023 table saw, a helical head jointer and an oscillating spindle sander and am very happy with all three. I think that sometimes Grizzly tools get a bad rap because people can't believe that a high quality tool that is very closely similar to one of the big names is so affordable. "there must be something wrong with it"? I also have Jet, Powermatic, Delta, Dewalt and Incra, Bosch and Porter Cable tools in my shop. I choose my tools based on my need and budget, features and availability and not just name or price. I research all of my purchases and compare models and brands closely prior to purchase. Customer service after the sale is very important, should it be needed; and Grizzly has great customer service. IMHO, my Grizzly tools are just as productive and reliable as my other tools. But ultimately the decision is yours. I hope you are happy with whatever you decide to purchase. Work safely, and have fun!
 
#14 ·
I have Grizzly:
  • G593 8 inch Helical Head Jointer (bought used)
  • G0690 10in Table Saw (bought new)
  • G7948 20 inch Drill Press (bought new)

I love them all and feel that they are by and large quality machines.

As for "snipe" being a problem, I am with C-Klutz in feeling that most is from operator error and proper adjustment of infeed and outfeed ramps. I made longer adjustable ramps. That has helped, yet I can still get snipe, if I am not careful about assisting the outfeed from rebounding upwards at the end of the planing cut. Planing longer pieces and final sizing only AFTER planing seems to be the safest bet in eliminating snipe, IMO.
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
I've look at the Grizzly as well but I m always a bit disappointed with the quality of Grizzly products and rather pay a bit more for better quality. That and some of their spiral cutter heads, the blades are super expensive (nearly $10 each). Versus Byrd blades are in the neighborhood of $3.50 each. When you have nearly 100 blades to replace at some point (if you ever do) it could be an expensive proposition.

Regards,
Todd

- Todd_R
In regards to the Grizzly 8" which I have, the cutters (blades) are interchangable with ones sold by Azcarbide. I researched this before my jointer purchase. A 15mm sq. is a 15mm sq. You will probably NEVER change all the cutters at one time. For the thrifty, they can be resharpened on a diamond card but that is a time consuming task.
 
#17 ·
I have a Delta 15" planer, and it will snipe. But if I lock the head the snipe goes away. Locking and unlocking is a small PITA, so I'll plane with the locks set until I get to the last 2 passes…then i use the locks.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Todd_R-

I've had my 8" jointer for 8 months and my 15" planer for 3 years. Jointer is PM 60HH (Byrd head) and planer is Jet 15HH (byrd style head). While debating buying both machines, a friend gave me good advice "since this equipment is going to be used to mill your wood, buy the biggest/best machine you can". I listened to that advice but still researched the other options out there from the blue, green, white, or gold colored machines. In addition to this advice I also needed get this equipment in my basement, which took any 20" planner out of the running and a jointer heavier than the 60HH out of the running (which meant no parallelogram jointer). In hindsight and if my shop was at ground level, I would have still bought a 15" planer but a larger jointer (maybe a 12" grizzly parallelogram with a swapped byrd head). The byrd type helical heads are quiet and very successful at milling figured wood. Also, the shavings are also more efficiently collected as they are smaller than shavings coming off a straight blade.

I am very happy with the planer and jointer that I have and I should never have to replace them.
*Side note, I took advantage of the 10% off sales Jet/PM does sporadically during each year through Rockler and did not have to pay for shipping (lift gate) or any sales tax (direct ship from factory).

SNIPE-I get it on my planer, but if I need every inch of wood, I will run a leading and trailing 2X4 with the board so the snipe is milled into the 2X4. So far it has worked really well.
 
#19 ·
I have a Grizzly G0609 jointer with byrd cutterhead, and a Grizzly G0453px planer with grizzly helical cutterhead, and can not tell the difference in the cutterheads. The jointer is the parallelagram style, and it is far better than a jointer with the slides. Mine will plane a board practically perfect. Had a small issue once, and adjusted the outfeed table, and it went away. The planer works as good as more expensive brands. As snipe goes, helps to feed your boards end to end, as that eliminates snipe.
 
#20 ·
I recently purchased the Hammer A3-41 with silent power spiral cutter head and I am extremely pleased with it. I am totally in love with having 16" jointer and planer capacity which is a big improvement over my previous 8" jointer and 13" DeWalt DW735. I find it easy to switch between functions and love the power of this machine vs to screaming loud Dewalt I had.
 
#21 ·
Sorry been off the grid for a week. Thanks for the feedback. I'm still looking for a better option but I think I'm leaning towards PM, but waiting for a sale/promotion pricing on the PJ-822HH.
JPCrusing, I was really strongly consider the Hammer A3-41; however, there's a couple things are holding me back there. I saw a online review showing some tear out with some wood grain where the Byrd style cutter didn't have that issue. I like wood with character (knots and such) so I'm hesitant there. Second, the fact that they can't deliver a unit until mid to late December is a serious challenge for me too. I have multiple projects pending the need for a jointer now. I event went down and visited the dealer locally and he showed me samples with significant snipe on them (similar to what I see on my Wen 13" planer). I was a bit turned off just based on that, even if it was just a simple adjustment. Unfortunately the first impression was not great for me and even if this is just operator error or setup issue I am having issues with waiting that long. It is really tempting to have a single machine and the 16" capacity though. Maybe I'll regret it in the long run, but most likely a 8" jointer will be sufficient for me.
Woodburn, I have a Grizzly bandsaw. It is a decent machine, but I felt that there are few corners that they cut which make the machine difficult to use. One example is the adjustment of the blade guides, the lower guide is a joke. It is maxed out and still isn't touching the blade. Second the adjustment bolt on one side is nearly impossible to get a wrench on and one can't move the wrench far enough to properly tighten it with the wrench. The unit I bought is for metal/wood and the adjustment for this is a complete pain in the ass so I leave it on metal 99% of the time since I do a lot of work with metal as well. I'm not saying it isn't/wasn't a good value but rather that it could be built better and/or designed better. I qualify this as one who is pretty particular in what I do (some call me a perfectionist) and I really enjoy the process much much more when the tools I have work perfectly rather than having to stop and adjust and readjust or simply just struggle to use them. So I'm willing to pay more if the tool can enhance my enjoyment of the process (obviously to a point that I can afford).
I've been seriously considering the Grizzly G0858 while it is on sale but it is out of stock and Grizzly has a poor reputation with delivery on out of stock items.
CaptainKlutz, thanks for the feedback. I have noticed while using my father's MiniMax some time ago that when taking shallow cuts on the planner that it left marks and just thought it was his system. That is something I was impressed by that the benchtop models don't do. Sorry to hear that's common among all industrial machines. Maybe a drum sander is in my future too. :(
 
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