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Forum topic by holsterguy posted 08-06-2019 10:23 AM 465 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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holsterguy

42 posts in 1536 days


08-06-2019 10:23 AM

Really hope someone can help. I’m working on one of the largest projects I’ve ever done. A recreation of a Gustav Stickley #614 chest of drawers in qswo.
Got to the finishing stage, made a sample board, liked the color, but wanted just a touch darker (not much).
I’m using water based dye from WD Locwood. Came out real dark. The next step of my schedule is to “pop” the grain with a very thin 2-1 coat of blo and thinner. On my sample, this actually lightened it some, so I went for it. Boy is it ugly.
Any ideas what to do to fix this mess?
First pic is sample, second is the cabinet before the thinned blo.


12 replies so far

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Lazyman

3871 posts in 1865 days


#1 posted 08-06-2019 01:57 PM

The close up of the sample piece looks really streaky. Did you follow the directions? I am not familiar with the stain you used but most of them want you to wipe the excess stain off after a certain length of time. It sort of looks to me like you did not wipe the excess off?

Close ups of the actual piece might help too. It sure looks green compared to the sample piece. Maybe it is just a difference in the lighting? You used the same stain and followed the same procedure on both?

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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therealSteveN

3593 posts in 1051 days


#2 posted 08-06-2019 04:05 PM

Sounds like you tried the dye itself on a sample board, liked it, then just went on and put a topcoat on the project, but didn’t do a sample board trial???

A page from TFWW on Lockwood dye

FWW also weighed in with a page about things to do....

I use WD Lockwood dyes, and the sample board is spot on. I follow the instructions Joel put up to the T. I also use a 1# cut of either clear blond if I want paler color, or a Garnet #1 cut as a seal coat over my dye, before adding other products. Shellac is the one thing, you can pretty much put other things over top of, and not have the 2 things fighting. It dries pretty fast so you don’t need to wait long to keep going, and for the short time it takes it’s a great buffer. One that I haven’t seen a big fault in the finished result. That kinda rhymes, I like it.

I’ve not had streaky, were you using tap water, or something from a jug, purified, or at least distilled? Tap has so many iron impurities and any metals can really influence a dye/stain/paint. They put steel wool into vinegar to actually make a really dark looking finish. Pretty sure your tap water isn’t that hard, but guaranteed it has plenty of Iron, maybe other permissible traces.

A turpentine washing will probably remove the BLO, the MS will just be a thinner for the BLO, so nothing to do for getting rid of it. Depending on footage of area to be cleaned it’s relatively straight forward, rag it on, let it sit, rag it off. Gloves for sure, because the BLO will be a sticky mess coming off, and clean rags all the time, or you end up just redistributing it.

PLENTY of time to let it dry, probably will need to lightly sand after dry, as I can see raising some grain. The dye is going to be the more problematic of the 2. Being water based, it will reactivate easily with anything wet, and its probably you will end up with a sometimes dyed, sometimes not so much piece after the Turp.

Dye isn’t stain, and it does go deeper than the surface. This is one reason it is so good, but alas, going heavily back over it can make a little dilution problem. Removing it may prove difficult?

For hair dye the recipe is. Vinegar and baking soda Make a paste with equal parts of vinegar and baking soda. Put some paste on a clean cloth, and rub it on the stain until the stain disappears from the hair.

DEFINITELY use a test piece on above.

In future ALWAYS do complete finish, A to Z on scrap stock of the same exact wood the project is made from, and prepped to the exact same grit, and schedule as you do the project. This, and only this is how to see what it will look like, this includes the normal dry times, the whole Enchilada. PIA, You Betcha…. But if you don’t ya get what ya got.

-- Think safe, be safe

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holsterguy

42 posts in 1536 days


#3 posted 08-06-2019 04:13 PM

No the sample shown is with finish

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therealSteveN

3593 posts in 1051 days


#4 posted 08-06-2019 04:29 PM


It sure looks green compared to the sample piece. Maybe it is just a difference in the lighting? You used the same stain and followed the same procedure on both?

- Lazyman

The impurities, metals of tap water have a tendency to make dyes go green. Those that are markedly green are often from tap water off a system with a water softener. That water has a huge amount of CO2. Makes hideous green stains. Those stains could dye wood even without a dye present, just drip that water on wood, and wait. If the entire project was from tap water off a softened system, that could be it. Failing that I hear that Twilight Zone music playing??

Crazy as it sounds if those stains are pretty fresh, they can come up pretty easily with DISTILLED water, and one of those Mr Clean Magic Eraser pads. wet, and scrub like all get out…

AGAIN, do this on a test piece.

If the worst happens, and this isn’t getting fixed, or doing a small area just takes way too long, they have Milk paints that just about sing, and dance…..... Awesome colors, easy application, great protection, lots of pluses. It sux if you wanted a more natural finish, just learn from this. A lot of us, myself included get all excited at the end of a project, and just want to see it done….. Truth be told those guys/gals with the flawless finishes we all WOW about, spend as long finishing as we do building, sometimes longer. It’s a poor time to be in a rush.

-- Think safe, be safe

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therealSteveN

3593 posts in 1051 days


#5 posted 08-06-2019 04:30 PM



No the sample shown is with finish

- holsterguy

Water source???

-- Think safe, be safe

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

2496 posts in 4348 days


#6 posted 08-06-2019 06:04 PM

If it’s been sealed in with blo. It’s going to be difficult
To remove
Try some mineral spirits
To remove the blo if possible
Then the water
Sometimes, household bleach will kill the dye
Again the issue is the blo

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Lazyman

3871 posts in 1865 days


#7 posted 08-06-2019 08:59 PM



...
First pic is sample, second is the cabinet before the thinned blo.

- holsterguy

So does that mean that you stopped before applying the BLO on the cabinet? Does it really look that green in person?

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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holsterguy

42 posts in 1536 days


#8 posted 08-07-2019 10:45 AM

I guess I should clarify a little better.
1-sample board is not streaky, thats the grain of that piece of wood.
2- finish schedule is dye, 1 coat 2/1 blo, 1coat 1/1 amber and sealcoat shellac, 3 coats furniture laquer.
3-sample board complete finish done

Yes it is an ugly greenish brown, just like actual fuming. Just mine turned out too dark.
My schedule I came up with after reading a book about Gustav Stickley’s finishes. (Yes he did use furniture laquer).

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holsterguy

42 posts in 1536 days


#9 posted 08-07-2019 10:58 AM

Forgot to add I did use distilled water when mixing the dye.
The first coat of the finish actually lightened the dye on my sample a little, so I added it to the cabinet, but it didn’t. Don’t know why.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3514 posts in 1958 days


#10 posted 08-07-2019 01:14 PM

There are some pretty good sources online for staining QSWO.

In your case, I think the BLO is a mistake you should dye it first to pop the rays.

I experimented quite a bit for a table I was doing and found the following formula really did a good job.

I found the lighter the dye the better the figure pop.

1. Dye. I used a 50/50 mixture of Amber and Yellow (GF water base).
2. Sand and seal with shellac.
3. Glaze with a darker gel stain (anything dark will do I used walnut).

Of course a lot depends on the board. The low figure type board you show is harder to get a good result.

This is what I ended up with:

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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DRWard

15 posts in 156 days


#11 posted 08-08-2019 01:09 AM

Years ago I made bunk beds out of hard maple. At this point, I do not recall specifically what finishing schedule was used, but the beds ended up much too dark. I was able to remove most of the stain with bleach (again, I do not recall the concentration, but I do remember researching it online). That said, the process did not remove all of the stain, but with a lot of sanding I was able to clean the boards to the point that I was able to refinish and was very pleased with the results. Good luck!

-- Donn, North Carolina

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holsterguy

42 posts in 1536 days


#12 posted 08-08-2019 01:26 AM

Donn,
Was messing around wit a sample board that I purposely made even darker. Wet rag only removed a very, very little color. So being a sample anyway, I used a wet fine scotchbrite and lightly went with the grain, then wiped dry. Checked it tonite when I got home, and it removed maybe 80% of the color! Cool! Now to experiment with white vinegar to remove the thinned blo.
Meantime, I emailed tools for working wood, and they said contact Lockwood dyes directly, they are very helpful in the matters. Keeping fingers (and toes) crossed.

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