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Forum topic by Enzayer posted 07-11-2019 10:16 PM 214 views 0 times favorited 6 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Enzayer

5 posts in 10 days


07-11-2019 10:16 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

The HEMA group I am in does demos at various public gatherings. We have a set of wooden stanchions that we run some rope through to create a barrier so that people don’t just walk into the middle of a sparing match. That being said the ones we have now are 4×4’s with a dovetail that allows us to slide legs into, and then nail those into the ground. With the differences in humidity and some of the…..rough…..treatment several of our members have given them, the legs are a mess and even the 4x’s have started to split along the grain in many cases. I’m wanting to upgrade the design away from the dove tails, while still keeping a few key features (Knock down, flat pack, interchangeable, and stake-able).

My thoughts so far have been to use lap joint in the center face of 2 legs, and then use either a dowel drilled into the end of the 4x and another hole in both the legs to get the 4x into place. Maybe rout a small square spot for the end of the 4x to sit and keep it oriented in the right direction. A lap joint on the edge might work too, and then cut a cross mortise into the 4x.

So my question mainly is, does anyone have any better suggestions or improvements for stability?

Thanks all.


6 replies so far

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

743 posts in 1523 days


#1 posted 07-12-2019 12:34 AM

I think I would consider making them using PVC pipe. Using various joints and PVC glue, you could make “X” shaped basis with larger diameter verticals. Leave the verticals unglued so that they are removable from the bases. “U” shaped steel stakes could anchor them down. I think they would be durable, cheap, and lighter in weight than wood.

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Enzayer

5 posts in 10 days


#2 posted 07-12-2019 01:07 AM

I agree that pvc has several benefits over wood in this case, however there are 2 points that make it unusable.

First, we are located in NC, and with some of the high 90 to over 100 days we get the PVC would just soften too much to be of use. I’ve seen other plastics do it in direct sunlight as well.

Second, several of the events we do require at least lip service to historical accuracy. Some events have even required all pop ups to be entirely covered in burlap or canvas to hide the modern materials. They can be pretty picky at times.

Thanks again for the suggestion, and now that I think of it maybe it could be adapted to dowels.

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ChefHDAN

1417 posts in 3270 days


#3 posted 07-12-2019 11:14 AM

I’ve built something similar for tameshigiri practice. The upright is a PT 4×4 and the legs were ripped out of some beam cutoffs. The joints are a tenon on the end of the post and a rabbet on the end of the inside face of each leg. To assemble the stand, you locate 1 leg and start the bolt through and then put the opposite side leg in place, so that 1 bolt holds the N & S legs and the other bolt secures the E & W legs. When I did the first assembly I discovered the wing nuts were too wide and I just ground off the corners. I rely on the mass of the stand to hold it in place, but with the legs an 1” thick I don’t see there would be a problem putting a hole through each leg to drive a ground spike through.



-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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Enzayer

5 posts in 10 days


#4 posted 07-12-2019 12:15 PM

I like the design, and was thinking of something similar the other day that might remove the need for the bolts (but not remove the need for a dowel to secure the upright. I do like how it goes together though. I might not do the tenon, and up the dimensionless of the legs to compensate just to make it simpler on me.

Thanks

P.S. if you haven’t looked into it, check out some of the HEMA cutting competitions. It’s always fun to check out what others are doing.

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ChefHDAN

1417 posts in 3270 days


#5 posted 07-16-2019 11:36 AM

I’ll confess I had to look up HEMA to see what it was, it looks interesting but my interests are more about Iaido not to say I don’t enjoy Kendo sparring from time to time.

On the design, the tenon is important for the stability as it prevents the legs from being able to rotate. If you eliminate it you’ll need 2 dowel pins in each direction and all torque from the legs will be applied to the dowels.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

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Enzayer

5 posts in 10 days


#6 posted 07-16-2019 01:34 PM

I was thinking of using the entirety of the 4x’s dimensions as the square tenon. I’d also like to see if I couldn’t mortice and tenon the legs together and do away with one of the bolts. Ill have to knock some prototypes together and see.

I mentions HEMA because there are cutting competitions that are usually had with the sparing tournaments. Some of the higher level cutters are really impressive.

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