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Forum topic by gmaffPappy posted 06-27-2019 01:43 AM 619 views 2 times favorited 28 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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gmaffPappy

76 posts in 2453 days


06-27-2019 01:43 AM

Topic tags/keywords: resource tip question joining finishing

I’ve been searching for a good thread on Glues, but haven’t found one. There are a log, but they’re specific to one brand/type. If there’s good general thread out there, and I’ve just missed it, please redirect me. I wasn’t sure which forum to put this query into, so I figured, “Glues join things.” Maybe this is the place. Let me know if there’s a better home for this post.

If not——Let’s start the conversation

I’m using a log of 16oz bottles of Titebond Original and II. It’s time to get larger volumes to save some $$, but I’m not sure what glues I should get. There are so many types and brands for different uses, and I wanted to find out people’s preferences and why, with the hopes of choosing a few good glues for my different situations, and the situations you guys know I’ll face, but haven’t.

Mostly, I use it for furniture, cabinets, frames…things like that. Normal set times are okay, but there will be times, due to the size and complexity of the builds, it would make sense to get glues with longer set times. I’ve read several posts that say Titebond Extended actually sets up in about the same time as regular Titebond…..True? Other options?

I’ve noticed there are colored glues and even some that are florescent. Correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t the glue be applied sufficient enough to bond, clamped tight, but not too tight, to squeeze out, let it set 12-24 hours, clean up the excess, and sanded so that no perceivable glue joint is noticeable? Why would it need to be colored (etc.) if it hopefully won’t be seen anyways?

I should have a good glue to use when making items for use with food. Anything good in that category?

Should I consider different glues for different woods?

There’s a good trick I’ve seen. When you need to temporarily glue something, you can put Blue Tape on both pieces and then CA glue on one strip of tape and activator on the other. Press the pieces together, and presto! You have two pieces that hold very well, like needed with jigs. Then when you separate them, the tape peals away leaving 0 residue. I live this trick. What are some good CA glues? I guess Activator is Activator. Is there a need to match brands? Which is better, or is CA glue is CA glue, is CA glue?

What am I missing? I’m sure there’s a ton on this topic and a book somewhere I would buy with the answers, but book smart is one thing, and it’s nothing compared to learning from those with personal experience.

Thanks Guys, and Let the Discussion Begin!

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.


28 replies so far

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2990 posts in 3860 days


#1 posted 06-27-2019 02:17 AM

Well, Big question. I’ve pretty much always used Titebond II. Started out long ago with Elmers.

You mentioned needing to get a larger quantity. I purchase a gallon of titebond ($17?). The thing is as you pour some off to fill your glue bottle the air space in the jug will let your remaining glue thicken up. A tip that some and I use is to pour the gallon off into soda bottles about the size of your glue bottle. A tightened cap and no air, and the glue stays fresh. You can also squeeze it a bit to get out that last bit of airspace.

Another note: I learned this when I was in Luthier school. Titebond sands. Elmers white glue won’t, it just gets shiny. It needs to be scraped off. Not much of a tip but interesting factoid.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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gmaffPappy

76 posts in 2453 days


#2 posted 06-27-2019 02:44 AM

Thanks for the tip. I didn’t know that you couldn’t sand Elmer’s. Interesting

There’s also the big topic of Epoxy. I can’t wait to get into filling cavities in some really cool wood with a neat, clear, colored Epoxy fill. I really like the look. I also gather that Epoxy mixed with saw dust makes a good filler. Just sand, don’t brush the dust away, and put in some epoxy. It’s supposed to look natural in small blemishes/gaps. I’ll have to try when my joints aren’t perfect. But in that case, what Epoxy is best…..and what should I use to color and fill voids, or is there a difference?

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

626 posts in 333 days


#3 posted 06-27-2019 03:34 AM

I tried Elmers Wood Glue and have had no issues (Elmers glue is not sandable for finishing, Elmers Wood glue is sandable for finishing), then tried Gorilla Wood Glue and also had no issues. After ready about the difference of Titebond III, I now get titebond III by the gallon, I also get Titebond Hide Glue in 8 oz, I did try Titebond Extended 16 oz but it was too runny & took along time to cure, I did try Titebond Quick and Thick 8 oz but the glue was hardened inside the bottles before I even opened up the bottle from the store. Titebond rep said the Quick and Thick only has a usage shelf life of only 18 monthes from time of manufacture. With CA adhesive in get the multi packs of the small tubes. I used to keep several Loctite brand Epoxy Syringe Packages on hand, but all six I had, with each one of the tubes hardened up before I took them out of the package. So I switched to Gorilla brand Epoxy Syringe packages…. I do put a date of purchase on all the glue bottles and Epoxy packages now. If you want to get the wood glues in the gallon size or larger, I suggest only if you use it up within one year. You don’t know how long it’s been setting at the store shelf or warehouse.

View Rich's profile

Rich

4575 posts in 1011 days


#4 posted 06-27-2019 05:16 AM

I use Titebond II flourescent. Never heard of it? I did a blog post over a year ago about it.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2990 posts in 3860 days


#5 posted 06-27-2019 11:33 AM



I tried Elmers Wood Glue and have had no issues (Elmers glue is not sandable for finishing, Elmers Wood glue is sandable for finishing),
- WoodenDreams

That’s right. I did specify ‘white’ glue. At one time, back when I started using it, the choices were pretty much white glue or hide glue. White glue is very good structurally for wood but when you sand it, the wood around the glue area sands faster than the glue. Thus it has to be scraped off if there is excess.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5572 posts in 3665 days


#6 posted 06-27-2019 03:54 PM

My glue of choice is Titebond II. As for an epoxy, the only one that has worked flawlessly has been JB Weld. In a test with many other epoxies, including Gorilla, (shown on you tube), JB was the only one that held up to 10x better than any of the others. JB is available in a clear formula and the pro size is 1 pint. That may be OK since epoxy is used sparingly.

View Phil32's profile (online now)

Phil32

585 posts in 325 days


#7 posted 06-27-2019 04:07 PM

My advice – don’t expect glue to make up for a poorly fitted joint.

-- Phil Allin - There are mountain climbers and people who talk about climbing mountains. The climbers have "selfies" at the summit!

View gmaffPappy's profile

gmaffPappy

76 posts in 2453 days


#8 posted 06-27-2019 07:10 PM



I use Titebond II flourescent. Never heard of it? I did a blog post over a year ago about it.

- Rich

Thanks! This is pretty cool. I’ll definitely keep this in mind. I would have missed the glue on the surface also.

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.

View gmaffPappy's profile

gmaffPappy

76 posts in 2453 days


#9 posted 06-27-2019 07:20 PM



My advice – don t expect glue to make up for a poorly fitted joint.

- Phil32

Thanks for the advice. I hope I’m not that bad at cutting joints…at least I don’t think I am so far. If the joint doesn’t fit, it’s time to remake the piece and learn from the mistake(s).

I’m designing most of my furniture to break down for moving. Like with Revolutionary and Civil War field furniture, it will look great, but be mobile. So I won’t glue most of them. But I know there are times I’ll need to do glue. There will always be things like:Kitchen Cabinets, frames, panels, pieces and parts that I won’t want to come apart.

Just looking for glue options and more knowledge.

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.

View HokieKen's profile (online now)

HokieKen

9974 posts in 1560 days


#10 posted 06-27-2019 07:24 PM

This is a sticky subject. ;-)

I use TB2 nearly all of the time. For sticking stuff together, I use either Gorilla or JB Weld epoxies. For filling gaps/holes, I use Alumilite Ultra Clear Cast resin and dye it with food coloring when I want color.

Just a thought but, if you’re building period furniture, like field furniture, you may want to research what was used in that era. I’m guessing hide glue.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1507 posts in 1916 days


#11 posted 06-27-2019 09:50 PM

Wow, a generic glue thread! What exactly do you want to know?

Are you sure you searched for existing information?

I’ve tossed out information on epoxies numerous times, like here:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/293385
https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/5190263
https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/4898897

Super glue .vs. epoxy and compatibility issues here:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/303332

There are a ton of threads on super glue, depending on what you want to know?
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/26643

Every adhesive has a purpose, as new adhesives are constantly developed to solve bonding problems.

Examples:
- Poly Vinyl Acetate (PVA) is base for all standard white/yellow wood glue. The different types (I, II, III) are modified to prevent moisture reversion, or to make glue ‘waterproof’ (As much as wood can be waterproof?)

- UV dye in PVA glues is to help automated UV light inspection systems easily check glue joints, and see if there are errant finger prints before finishing. UV dye in adhesives is very common. Practically all the sealants used by auto factories have dye, it’s so robot can see and self adjust glue bead locations.

- Polyurethane is nasty glue for wood for many reasons, but yet it sticks to most anything, except silicone rubber. And you can make it stick to silicone with right surface etch before applications.

- Titebond Extend wood glue has lower solids, and some slow evaporation glycols in to to help slow set speed. It’s really useful for big assembles, or folks like me in Arizona trying to glue wood at 100F or less than 10% RH in the shop. It’s my primary adhesive 9 months of the year.

- Titebond makes molding & trim PVA that is nothing more than longer length polyvinyl chains and some fine fillers to thicken it up and prevent runs. But it is still a PVA wood glue with same pro/con as any other.

- When it comes to food rated glue, regular white glue is certified as safe for kinds to eat raw (and they do). Type I PVA wood glue is just as safe when wet. Type II and III have some ‘unsafe when wet’ things inside, but all PVA glues are safe for food contact when dry. Hide glue has been used in kids toys for centuries, so it is another food safe glue.

If you want to know about ALL the types of wood glue, Wiki does a nice job summarizing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_glue

BTW – I am not a glue expert, but I’ve spent half my work life developing new adhesives, coatings and encapsulants; and the equipment to apply them in production environments. Even have a couple patents in epoxy and polyurethanes formulations. Have also built aerospace composites and done wood working as hobbies for over 35 years. So I might be able to accurately answer some additional technical questions?
Post them if you like!

Cheers!

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8320 posts in 3220 days


#12 posted 06-27-2019 11:17 PM

I use almost exclusively hide glues, hot and liquid. They have many advantages and very few disadvantages however they have been out-marketed in the modern age and overtaken by “easier to use” pva’s. Almost anyone who takes the time to really try hide glues becomes a convert. I know I did.
The debate is too long for a comment here but if you are interested check out this blog series.
https://www.lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/5437
BTW I’m not a wingnut. This stuff is good!

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View farmfromkansas's profile

farmfromkansas

57 posts in 36 days


#13 posted 06-27-2019 11:53 PM

I buy titebond at Menards by the gallon when they have a sale. The original titebond does not damage by freezing as easily as II and III so can tolerate cooler temps in winter. I like Rockler’s glue bottles. The new ones have a larger lid opening, so is easier to fill. Use the caps for the glue so it does not develop a skin in the smaller bottle.

View Rich's profile

Rich

4575 posts in 1011 days


#14 posted 06-28-2019 12:04 AM


I use almost exclusively hide glues, hot and liquid.

- shipwright

It was you who got me to try protein glues. Never looked back. I recall the time I glued up a dovetailed drawer only to realize after it dried that I’d forgotten to cut the groove for the bottom in the drawer front. Thank goodness I used hide glue and could reverse it.

For the record: Hide glue fluoresces.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View Lazyman's profile (online now)

Lazyman

3568 posts in 1809 days


#15 posted 06-28-2019 03:51 AM

I’m a fan of hide glues but unless I’m a doing veneer or significant glue up I rarely use hot hide glue. I’m a little afraid to use hide glue for glue blocks on the lathe because I’ve seen demonstrations about shocking pieces apart but perhaps using a higher gram strength strength it is not a problem. It also seems to take longer to set than PVA. BTW, here is an article on making your own liquid hide glue.

I personally don’t like Titebond PVA glues. I have used them twice and had problems both times. First time was TB3 to glue staves for a beer mug and it is the only time I’ve ever had a glue joint fail. Second time was TB original and the glue thickened in the bottle after only using it once even though the code date says It was less than 9 months old. I’ve had a gallon jug of Elmer’s wood glue for over 5 years now and it still seems to be just as good as the first day i bought it. TB seems to be more slippery than the Elmer’s so I’ve had more problems with joints slipping when clamping. That could be a good thing for tight fitting M&T or dovetails but in that case I prefer liquid hide glue.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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