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Forum topic by Karda posted 06-20-2019 05:49 AM 714 views 0 times favorited 39 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Karda

1585 posts in 976 days


06-20-2019 05:49 AM

Hi i want to use a sanding paste on my turnings but they have oil and wax in them. Can I use shellac after using oil and wax thanks


39 replies so far

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2673 posts in 2557 days


#1 posted 06-20-2019 09:51 AM

Never heard of sanding paste would be nice if provided a brand name of the product.

Know some turners using this product with mineral oil as a final finish or but with sandpaper, others use it over oil or film finish.
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/43/1270/staples-Crystal-Clear-Paste-Wax

Here is an old review and use of the product:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/reviews/product/3208

Not sure lot of turners still make their own bees wax & mineral oil mix to sand & finish their work these days. Have to heat bees wax and not burn it & mix with MO before sanding with it.

Was a post here month or so back where guy found vendor in US selling this stuff but think its an unecessary step in finishing process.
https://turnerswoodproducts.com/products/combo-pack

I have and use Minwax furniture furniture polish or Johnson’s paste floor wax on top of final finishes sometimes never before.

-- Bill

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1507 posts in 1916 days


#2 posted 06-20-2019 11:44 AM

Sanding paste?

Local AZ club has write up on how to make your own sanding/polishing finish for wood turnings.
http://azwoodturners.org/pages/tips/HomemadeFrictionPolish.pdf

While not ‘sanding paste’, it does help sand while creating a polished surface.
Since it has no wax, can apply additional top coats for extra protection if needed.

Can buy similar commercial solution from Doctor’s Woodshop: http://doctorswoodshop.com/

YMMV

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

5654 posts in 4085 days


#3 posted 06-20-2019 01:47 PM

I suspect the OP is talking about Ack's Wood Paste ...

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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Wildwood

2673 posts in 2557 days


#4 posted 06-20-2019 04:01 PM

Make your own:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ack%27s+paste+wax+videos&&view=detail&mid=367CB8398B47BB6E842A367CB8398B47BB6E842A&rvsmid=718399C089860E187C0D718399C089860E187C0D&FORM=VDRVRV

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Garden-Safe-Brand-Diatomaceous-Earth-4-lb-Insect-Killer/3276739

That bug stuff less expensive than Tripoli powder!

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_CAds=&_ex_kw=&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_nkw=tripoli+powder&_sacat=&_sadis=&_sop=12&_udhi=&_udlo=&_fosrp=1

Pure bees wax pretty expensive by the pound less if buy by the ounce not sure about cost to ship or how to change formula from shown in the video.

https://www.ebeehoney.com/beeswax.html

Bottle of mineral oil less than $2.00 at Walmart last time bought some.

Might be easier and about same cost to buy Ack’s product or some other like it.

Whether use homemade or commercial product that’s the only finish you need. You will have to sand to higher grit papers before using. If leave any visible scratches probably going to show after using sanding paste. Whether adding any top coat of finish will stick after using sanding paste is SWAG!

So finish with number of coats of shellac turning needs then use a sanding paste wax mix.

-- Bill

View Karda's profile

Karda

1585 posts in 976 days


#5 posted 06-20-2019 05:28 PM

can use a shellac finish over an oil & wax paste, after the paste has been removed

View gwilki's profile

gwilki

306 posts in 1896 days


#6 posted 06-20-2019 06:32 PM

I was assuming that you were talking about something like Yorkshire Grit or EEE-Ultra Shine. Both of these use a fine abrasive in a wax base.

If you remove the paste with mineral spirits, you can put a shellac finish over Yorkshire Grit for sure. I’ve done it. I used the Grit essentially as a very fine sandpaper. The first time I tried to put a finish over it, the results were not spectacular. I think that I did a poor job of removing the wax. When it took the wax off with mineral spirits, the results were better.

-- Grant Wilkinson, Ottawa ON

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2363 posts in 2411 days


#7 posted 06-20-2019 06:43 PM

I use automotive products on turnings. Depends on the actual finish and the look I want, but wet/dry sandpaper, used with poly if thats the finish, or oil or water for fully filled lacquer. Lacquer gets finished out with Meguiars compounds for the final shine. For poly wipe on, Vinces Woodandwonders sells white polishing pads for drill use that are used to polish and apply wax.

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2673 posts in 2557 days


#8 posted 06-21-2019 09:44 AM

Think the simpler you keep your finishing procedure easier and less time consuming also less expensive!

Ack’s & Yorkshire essentially the same thing with minor difference in chemistry maybe. EEE Shine little different in that Shellwax recommended for final top coat. You have a wax either bees, carnauba, or both types, mineral or some other oil, and fine powder and make an easy to apply friction finish by themselves! Yorkshire says can use a top coat of finish on top of their product and guess you can if use recommended top coats. Homebrew’s contain pretty much same ingredients.

These sanding pastes with waxes probably good stand alone finish on closed grain or exotic oil woods not so sure about cross or open grain woods! Definitely think twice about using these products over wood with blemishes or defects such as knots or wood with bark still on.

Have my doubts just how well these products deal with scratches on bare wood. Where they probably excel is removing blemishes or smoothing out final film finish! Also if want to go from high gloss to matt or satin finish. A less expensive alternative to removing blemishes or smoothing out a film finish is wet sanding with micromesh.

Honestly think starting with & ending with right grits of sandpaper on dry wood should remove all but minor blemishes & scratches. Don’t know any film finish that won’t hide those!

-- Bill

View Karda's profile

Karda

1585 posts in 976 days


#9 posted 06-21-2019 04:55 PM

thanks for your information, I am not trying to replace sanding. from videos i have seen sanding paste is used above 220. so yea I have to sand right to begin with. My concern for topcoating with shellac is wet sanding with mineral oil and beeswax, I have some but didn’t want to ruin the bowl for finishes if I use it

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2335 posts in 3366 days


#10 posted 06-27-2019 06:34 AM

Below is the past I make myself (published on the instructables web site):

https://www.instructables.com/id/Making-and-Using-Inexpensive-Buff-Compounds-for-Wo/

This is what my turnings look like after using the paste, then spraying lacquer over, making it obvious shellac would do just fine.

View Karda's profile

Karda

1585 posts in 976 days


#11 posted 06-27-2019 07:16 AM

thanks for the information, i would never have thought of using a toilet ring. I’m glad it can be top coated with shellac thanks Mike

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2673 posts in 2557 days


#12 posted 06-27-2019 07:37 PM

Kelly, maybe missing something but don’t see where your home brew adds anything to those items in the pictures posted! Some of the commercial products give specific final finishes to use over top of their products and some don’t.

Kelly, regardless of color those wax bowl rings 100% petroleum wax that may or may not contain microbial additives guarding against mold, mildew, and bacterial growth on wax. Plumber have been calling them bees wax for long time but definitely not! Prior to addition those additives those wax rings would attract mold & mildew.

From reading your instructions; why can’t people use regular paraffin wax another petroleum wax? Mike Peace explains why he prefers to use diatomanceous earth over pumice & rottenstone, pure bees wax and mineral oil in his video posted earlier. All of his ingredients are non-toxic and meant to be a final fish for his turnings.

JMHO, where sanding paste with or without wax excels is finishing the finish of other film finishes or as stand alone finish. A good paste wax alone can help remove flaws in a final finish by itself while on or off the lathe. Much expensive way today to finish the finish is simple micromesh sheets, wet sanding with drop of dish soap in the water!

Using sanding paste under a film finish can really gum up the procedure for many novice finishers!

-- Bill

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2335 posts in 3366 days


#13 posted 06-27-2019 08:19 PM

My home brew is not a finish. It’s a home made polish (or polishes).

The items pictured had to be polished to bring the plastics back to transparent. I sand to from 150 grit to 320 grit and use it to bring the plastic back.

You might notice my quote marks around the “wax.” They were there for the obvious reason. I believe many of the so called wax rings are just the product of more manipulation of soy.

The only reason I didn’t try the paraffin is, I don’t remember where I put the five pound block so I wouldn’t forget it, and it’s harder to dissolve than the toilet ring. As long as it dissolves in the thinner, it’s fair game, in my opinion, so it’s worth a trial run. It may even work better in other applications.

Whoever Mike Peace is, I agree. I noted I like the diatomaceous earth even more than the finer powders, like cerium oxide and [green] chromium oxide for polishing wood and plastic. Still, it could be the others have their place. After all, the buff compounds we get downtown are all over the board (white, red, green, blue) for stainless, copper, plastic, glass. etc.

The photos are of turnings I used my polish on after sanding to 150 or 220. The only prep I did, before applying lacquer, was using a clean rag to remove most the residue.

I don’t know I’d agree to the statement this and other compounds excel on other finishes, since this end result on these seems pretty decent to me, and those who’ve gotten one of these. The simple of it is, the plastics in these and other things I play with equate to a finish.

Note the only reason these have lacquer on the plastic portions is because it would be foolish to try to mask the plastic to keep the lacquer off it. Regardless, even with minimal effort, things like this have never shown signs of a problem, regardless if I was using a friction finish, poly, lacquer or shellac.

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Wildwood

2673 posts in 2557 days


#14 posted 06-28-2019 07:26 PM

By now, “OP,” realizes sanding paste not what he expected! The need to strive for off the tool finish will shorten any ones sanding sequence. Sanding paste finishing products by themselves will remove scratches from wood.

Kelly meet Mike!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mike+peace+woodturner

Kelly you & Mike not the only turners using homemade oil, wax, & abrasive powders as a finish. Mixtures and procedure been around long before I ever got into turning wood. On many projects will serve as a final finish and of course some not so much.

If you found the perfect ingredients to make your finish and happy with the results that’s all that matters. I use the Hut product on lot of acrylic pens.

Most wood finishers & re-finishers opt for simple & reliable products. Re-finishers especially those working with antiques may have more unusual products like dyes, oils, and powders they use on those rare occasions they need.

-- Bill

View Karda's profile

Karda

1585 posts in 976 days


#15 posted 06-28-2019 09:32 PM

Hi, I appreciate everybody’s input it is very informative and it helps. But I do know what sanding paste is for and am aware that proper sanding come first Fro the many replies I wonder if any body even read my question. It has nothing to do with sanding or how and when to use it here is my question. “Hi i want to use a sanding paste on my turnings but they have oil and wax in them. Can I use shellac after using oil and wax thanks “

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