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Bypassing Jet dust collector anti-start

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Forum topic by Emo67 posted 06-11-2019 03:13 AM 291 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Emo67

7 posts in 31 days


06-11-2019 03:13 AM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collector extraction remote control anti-start

Hi guys. I have 2hp 230v jet dust collector. It has an anti-start on the machine which means using remotes is not possible. I bought a new normal power tool on off switch but not sure what to do. Want to disable the anti-start since the machine is located outside my shop hence a pain to turn on and off every time. This is a UK wired device with a 13 /23 in and a 14/24 out and then a. 5th white wire looks like I/0 symbol. When I disconnected that the machine made clanking noise so I reconnected it everything fine. Any help please.


10 replies so far

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CaptainKlutz

1385 posts in 1889 days


#1 posted 06-11-2019 01:20 PM

Not an expert, sharing what I know:

1) KLD17B is off-the-shelf magnetic starter switch. Very common switch, and comes in many configurations.
Comes in various voltages/current ratings, has 2 poles, with magnetic release if power is removed. Very simple in/out wiring, with 5th wire is usually wiring an external trip of magnetic release.

2) Don’t know about UK rules on magnetic starters and motors, But:
2HP+ motors require a magnetic starter switch per USA rules for electrical devices used by most states. That said, it is possible to replace this magnetic switch with conventional switch, but it is not recommended unless the motor has internal overload breaker. In order to make a conventional switch work, would need to figure out wiring diagram on how the external trip wire is used and if it can be ignored? (DC1200VX manual doesn’t show it, and JET offered remote shows internal overload breaker)

3) If you want to add remote start to dust collector, IMHO best option would be to replace the magnetic switch with conventional magnetic motor starter, such as this example from Grizzly:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Magnetic-Switch-Single-Phase-220V-Only-2-HP/G4572
Using this device separates the switch, relay contacts, and motor overload; which enables you to add remote start switch in parallel with regular switch on the box. Here is one example of DIY remote switch from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTL3TG6
There are threads here on LJ regarding DIY remote controls that explain more on wireless remote switches.

All magnetic motor starter wiring are very similar, most wired same way, regardless of whether is it saw, jointer, or dust collector. There are also many threads regarding motor starter wiring, such as this example:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/replies/5205976

Motor Starter wiring requires understanding of motor operating, failure modes, and safe electrical practices. If the above references don’t help you figure out how to change the switch, or install different magnetic starter, then suggest you consult with a local electrician. AC power wiring is dangerous, and last thing you need is mistake that burns down your shop and anything attached to it.

Best Luck

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

604 posts in 3188 days


#2 posted 06-11-2019 02:10 PM

The white line to the left is the on off switch. The o is the open symbol, the l is the closed contact of the switch. If this is a magnetic starter with 3 wire control , a stop can be added in series with the original stop and a start button can be added in parallel to the original start. I also am in USA, and do not know anything about UK codes.

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ibewjon

604 posts in 3188 days


#3 posted 06-11-2019 04:22 PM

And what exactly is an anti start? That term is not used here. Is it a disconnect or a safety switch like a dead man switch you need to operate to start?

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CaptainKlutz

1385 posts in 1889 days


#4 posted 06-11-2019 09:30 PM


And what exactly is an anti start?
- ibewjon

LOL. Good question!
FWIW – I assumed that OP was trying to say that when he put the remote start in front (or after) the existing magnetic switch, that dust collector would not turn back on after power was removed by remote switch?
I.E the magnetic switch did it’s job to prevent restarting the motor after power was removed, unless the ON button was pushed. :)
AKA – Anti-(remote)-start.
Hope I guessed right?

Remote starting is an issue with those small self contained magnetic switches.
References:
http://www.kedu.cn/pordcts3-electromagnetic1.html
https://www.e-switch.com/system/asset/product_line/data_sheet/33/KJD17.pdf
http://spec_sheets.e-switch.com/specs/34-KJD1721413112.pdf

Kedu/eSwitch makes non-magnetic versions for most of their magnetic switches. Tracking down right part with out the PN references above is challenging, and not all configurations are available off-the-shelf unless you are willing to order direct from Chinese online distributor.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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ibewjon

604 posts in 3188 days


#5 posted 06-11-2019 11:04 PM

I have a fishing friend from the UK, and it takes awhile to learn new terms. Chips are fries and crisps are potato chips. Thought anti start might be a local term. Any switch can be an anti start, but some tools have dead man switches or other types of switches. Yes it could be a manual magnetic switch, which could be changed to a magnetic starter with 3 wire control, such as a stop / start station.

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Emo67

7 posts in 31 days


#6 posted 06-11-2019 11:45 PM

Sorry guys. Anti-start was the term I saw online (newbie here). Yes I think it is a mag switch

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Emo67

7 posts in 31 days


#7 posted 06-11-2019 11:49 PM

It’s an OEM Jet. Meaning not a authentic Jet but one made for Jet and Grizzly and a few other companies. (yes they both also use 3rf party companies on some models over seas).

Bascially I just wanna be able to remote start it the most safe way. 230v 50htz. So what would be the best method?

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ibewjon

604 posts in 3188 days


#8 posted 06-12-2019 01:45 AM

Looking up the starter you have, it does not appear to have terminals for remote operation. You will need to replace it with a magnetic starter that can be operated remotely. It will have a terminal 1, 2, and 3. It will have a diagram how to wire it with a remote switch for 2 wire control, or wire it with a start push button and a stop push button for 3 wire control. I use Square D or Allen Bradley. ABB or Siemens would also be good. Whatever is available. You will also need the selector switch or the push buttons, along with the wiring method required to extend to your remote operation location.

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CaptainKlutz

1385 posts in 1889 days


#9 posted 06-12-2019 04:59 PM

There are many different ways to add remote start to dust collector. Picking which one depends on your knowledge and skills with electrical components and wiring?
Sorry to say this, bit by lack of experience to your question, suggest you need professional help?

Regardless:
From a safety standpoint, 2HP 230v motors are relatively safe with ‘normal’ household 230V 15A circuit wiring found in UK. The FLA on typical 2HP 230V is ~12A. To be ‘safe’ from locked up or failing motor; there should be an overload breaker in the circuit if not using a magnetic switch.

Based on pictures of DCK1200 Jet Dust collector online, it appears you do not have an overload breaker installed in the switch box or on the motor. With overload missing, I would NOT be comfortable with changing the magnetic switch to conventional switch. Primarily because UL/CSA (Consumer Safety Agencies) electrical codes require an overload breaker and/or magnetic starter on larger household motors. And I have seen motors catch fire due missing over load breaker.
There are two options to adding the over load breaker:
1) Install separate breaker and wiring,
2) Replace the current magnetic switch with motor starter that includes the over load protection.

Over load relays are cheap (< $10), drilling a hole for mounting, and wiring one into the circuit is easy; ASSUMING you understand electrical wiring practices? Complete motor starters can cost anywhere from $40 USD (cheap plastic units direct from China) to $250 USD (top of line US made); and also require basic motor wiring knowledge to hook up.

BTW – If you look at online manual, it shows the internals of JET remote control accessory DC-RC230, and an overload breaker is in the box as part of the remote.

TBH – The challenge with switch replacement is figuring out how the 5th wire (external trip circuit) is wired. Would expect the external trip wire is coming from the over load breaker, as that is normal configuration inside a motor starter (wiring diagram link posted above); But I don’t see over load anywhere in the online manuals?
Without physically seeing the machine and tracing the external trip wire interconnections, afraid I can’t help much more.

PS – Lived in flat just outside Liverpool for 6 months managing the installation of new mfg line in auto electronics factory nearby. Have just enough knowledge of UK and other industrial 50Hz power systems to know you need more help with local wiring codes than a village idiot such as myself can provide.
Please consult a local professional.

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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Emo67

7 posts in 31 days


#10 posted 06-12-2019 06:18 PM

Yup got I guy out today he is an electrician and rewired it with a breaker unit and also have it on it’s own dedicated line from my workshop circuit box. New workshop small but functional only 18’ x 16’ but now the fun part starts,: laying all the piping. Will run 5” mostly and do 4” drops where needed and use the shop vac on a cyclone for the 2” mounts. Thanks to everyone for all the help. Ordered a few remote plugs that one remote can run three so 2 for dust control and one for internal room dust collection filtration box I made.

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