LumberJocks

Leecraft TS insert is making me nervous

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by CrankAddict posted 05-20-2019 10:43 PM 546 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View CrankAddict's profile

CrankAddict

38 posts in 222 days


05-20-2019 10:43 PM

I couldn’t find any info for these guys to call them directly, only found dealers listed. Anyway, I painstakingly installed and cut the slot in my insert and was quite pleased with how “exact” the slot was. But now every time I turn the saw on (DW7491RS) the blade cuts a few more flakes out of the insert (I’ve probably turned it on 40 times since installed it and it’s still doing it each time). I feel like the blade is momentarily torquing to the side on start up and that cuts a wider slot than where it is while normally running. I cut the insert slot by raising the blade from below so the startup movement would have already occurred (assuming my theory is correct).

Has anybody else run into this issue? It makes me nervous each time I turn the saw on because I imagine a tooth snagging the insert enough to launch it at me. Before flipping the switch I now press down on the insert each time to make sure it’s fully seated, but I haven’t seen anybody else talk about any of this so I figured I should ask…

Thanks!
Jeff


15 replies so far

View sgcz75b's profile

sgcz75b

72 posts in 181 days


#1 posted 05-20-2019 11:19 PM

I have 2 Leecraft inserts for a Bosch 4100-10 saw. Both were easy to install and have not nibbled any more since the original cut.

Perhaps it’s your saw/blade out of alignment. Have you changed blades? Have you checked to be certain the blade is 90 degrees to the insert?

-- "A dying people tolerates the present, rejects the future, and finds its satisfactions in past greatness and half remembered glory" - John Steinbeck

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

3554 posts in 1808 days


#2 posted 05-21-2019 12:22 AM

Some saw blades wobble or distort a little at start up or as they spin down. Try another blade to see if the problem goes a way. You can also try a stabilizer disk.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View CrankAddict's profile

CrankAddict

38 posts in 222 days


#3 posted 05-21-2019 12:53 AM

It’s a brand new Freud Fusion TK blade. Not sure if the TK blades are more likely to deflect. I spent hours working on the alignment of the blade and it’s about as good as I can get for this type of saw. I guess the important point, though, is that you guys aren’t saying “oh that’s normal” so I should probably keep investigating…

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

633 posts in 1882 days


#4 posted 05-21-2019 03:26 AM

I have several lee craft inserts for my ridgid r4512.
My 1st insert had a little rattle to it at start up.
Turned out that I needed a little more fine turning.
Adjust the two screws to try to get a better fit. That’s all it took for me.

-- John

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

3103 posts in 994 days


#5 posted 05-21-2019 05:22 AM

Yes this continued cutting away anything after the slot is cut should only happen if a person started with a TK blade, and moved to a full kerf blade. Not having done this, you have a problem with the arbor, blade deflecting, or simply your 90 degree isn’t.

If it were a saw of mine doing this I would go back to scratch on saw setup, and work through it like it was new to me.

Maybe it’s nothing but you said

“I spent hours working on the alignment of the blade and it’s about as good as I can get for this type of saw.”

How much is it out at the blade, from the miter slot. Front and back, how far apart are they? What are you using to figure that distance?

-- Think safe, be safe

View CaptainKlutz's profile (online now)

CaptainKlutz

1499 posts in 1915 days


#6 posted 05-21-2019 10:03 AM

Comments FWIW:
1) Check belt tension:
If your belt tension is little to tight/loose, it can create some extra wobble on the blade during startup. Noticed thus on my contractor saw(s), and it was worse with Freud thin kerf blades as they seem to have thinner plate than most of my other blades.

2) Trust, but verify: Could be blade, or maybe arbor?
Measure the run-out of your arbor, then check run-out on couple different blades. You might have small variation that smooths out at full rpm?
On my cabinet saw, noticed have slight wobble during startup with thin kerf blades, but not with any full width 1/8 thick blades, or my dado stack. After about a dozen starts, they TK blade stopped making noise on new ZCI, so I never bothered to track down how my run-out was being created.
Note, Way back when TS arbors where trued line on machine. They ‘stone’ (or true) the arbor washer face flat/square to shaft with oil/water stone while running (blade removed). Forget where I saw the procedure documented, but sure Google can find it.

3) Have used LC ZCI for decades, and several different saw. Observed that sometimes the ZCI .vs actual cast iron table saw opening is not perfect. They usually fit well, but have seen inserts with room to move around. This will create the constant noise you mention.
I used a few layers of masking tape around what ever edge needed to take up any extra space. If the insert can slide front to back, or side to side; it will when saw starts and has highest amount of vibration happening. If need to take up a lot of space, can also drill and tap a small set screw into the side of insert.

As always, YMMV,
Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View CrankAddict's profile

CrankAddict

38 posts in 222 days


#7 posted 05-21-2019 01:31 PM



Maybe it s nothing but you said

“I spent hours working on the alignment of the blade and it’s about as good as I can get for this type of saw.”

How much is it out at the blade, from the miter slot. Front and back, how far apart are they? What are you using to figure that distance?

I used a Mitutoyo dial indicator that reads .0001” and got the blade to .0003” front to back when referencing the same spot on the blade against the miter slot (indicator was attached to Incra 1000HD). I also bought a Starrett square and got the vertical on the blade as perfect as I visibly can (no light shining through at all, top to bottom). I treated the precision of this saw’s setup like my life depended on it (I’m a bit OCD) so I can honestly say it’s as good as it can get and overall I think it’s pretty damn good.

That said, even if one of those things were off I don’t see how it would matter in this situation. I can do the following -

1) Turn on saw – see a few chips of insert fly out.
2) Turn off saw (no cuts made, blade position not touched)
3) Turn on saw – see a few more chips of insert fly out.

Even if the blade were at an angle, or had some wobble, why wouldn’t it cut the full slot width that orientation required on step #1 such that there was nothing additional to cut on step 3? That’s the part that has me most confused.

View PaulDoug's profile

PaulDoug

2001 posts in 2124 days


#8 posted 05-21-2019 02:37 PM

I had this problem with my inserts (OME) and I discovered I had a loose bolt and the whole “arbor mechanism” was slowly moving. Sorry can’t remember the terms to better isolate which bolt it was, but I’m glad I checked. Had to remove the table to get to it. I moved thing back in place and tighten the bolt, have had no problem since.

-- “We all die. The goal isn't to live forever; the goal is to create something that will.” - Chuck Palahniuk

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5571 posts in 3664 days


#9 posted 05-21-2019 04:00 PM

When you turn on the saw, maybe the chips are coming from below the table as sawdust will always accumulate around the arbor and vibration at startup will shake dust loose and give you the impression it is coming from the insert.

View CrankAddict's profile

CrankAddict

38 posts in 222 days


#10 posted 05-21-2019 04:04 PM

That’s not a bad thought, Ron. I’ll take the insert out and vacuum things out thoroughly and retry. Paul – I’ll also give the arbor a closer look. Thanks everyone!

View sgcz75b's profile

sgcz75b

72 posts in 181 days


#11 posted 05-21-2019 04:16 PM



That s not a bad thought, Ron. I ll take the insert out and vacuum things out thoroughly and retry. Paul – I ll also give the arbor a closer look. Thanks everyone!

- CrankAddict

Ron makes a good point. Take closeup photos of the blade space. Then raise and lower the blades several times while moving and take more closeup photos. See if there’s a difference and if any tear out is occurring.

-- "A dying people tolerates the present, rejects the future, and finds its satisfactions in past greatness and half remembered glory" - John Steinbeck

View sansoo22's profile

sansoo22

151 posts in 75 days


#12 posted 05-21-2019 06:30 PM

I own that saw and a handful of Leecraft inserts for it. I know the arbor on mine isn’t terribly well balanced and it vibrates on startup every time. Not enough to get plastic flakes from the ZCI tho. I went thru the same overall process you did to align everything in compliance with my OCD. Blade and fence are within 0.02 mm (~0.0008”) of parallel with the miter slot which isn’t quite as good as you have so call me impressed there.

The only thing i could think to check is any side to side movement of the ZCI itself. Mine all fit rather snug and only required adjusting the depth screws to make them flush with the top. I know the DW-2 insert has a side screw on it that can be used to adjust it laterally. I think it should have 2 on the side but whatever at least it has the one.

I will add that my ZCI isn’t exactly 0 clearance. My process of making it work with the riving knife widened it about 1/64” from true 0 clearance.

I guess as a last ditch, maybe i was a bonehead, check would be to make sure you tightened both of the adjustment bolts for the blade housing on the back of the saw. I know i just about forgot one of them when i was done with my adjustments.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

741 posts in 1523 days


#13 posted 05-21-2019 07:02 PM

Before flipping the switch I now press down on the insert each time to make sure it s fully seated, but I haven t seen anybody else talk about any of this so I figured I should ask…

Thanks!
Jeff

- CrankAddict


This suggests to me that the insert is not fastened down with anything. I always make my own inserts and once the blade slot is cut, the blade usually continues to rub a bit. No problem because my saw has two places where small screws threaded into the insert support tabs hold it down. This is a little inconvenient, but I have no concerns about it flying out. You might consider drilling and taping for some hold down screws (or at least one).

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1437 posts in 2056 days


#14 posted 05-21-2019 09:23 PM

Mine rattled as well. Did you adjust the screw on the side to take out the play in the throat?
I have 3 of them and they all do the same thing. I took a piece of sand paper and lightly sanded the edges on the top and bottom of the slot made by the blade. No issues to date.

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

2883 posts in 2768 days


#15 posted 05-21-2019 11:28 PM

As I recall, Lee passed away earlier this year and his son was going to try to finish out the orders and such that were outstanding but wasn’t sure how much time he would have to devote to the business. I think he posted his comments in either the forum or the blog section.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com