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New bench plane...doing something wrong

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Forum topic by Vbryanv posted 04-18-2019 02:33 PM 721 views 1 time favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Vbryanv

5 posts in 36 days


04-18-2019 02:33 PM

I purchased I new woodriver 4 1/2 smoothing plane from woodcraft, watch a ton of you tube videos and attempted to put a micro bevel on it. I totally messed up the primary bevel the first time and had to sand down the entire thing and start all over. I’ve got it good now and it’s very sharp but….
1. It doesn’t do a very good job of smoothing. I get thin shavings but not more than a couple of inches and its a little tough sometimes. Also the wood after is not very smooth
2. It leaves lines in the wood Everytime I get a shavings
3. The lateral adjustment lever is pushed all the way to the left.
I sanded used DMT diamond stone 600/1000 and then finished with 12000 water stone
I also used a cheap $10 jig and had the blade protruding 1 1/2 inchs out which should have given me a 30° micro bevel.

I check the edges of the plane and sanded those as well just in case they were too sharp and causing the lines In the wood.

Frog is also tight.

Please help.

PS I ordered a new blade and should get it tomorrow just in case I messed that up royally

-- Anything can be fixed!!!!


19 replies so far

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SMP

864 posts in 268 days


#1 posted 04-18-2019 02:58 PM

Ok, so FIRST , take that cheap honing guide, watch this video, and do the recommended modifications. Otherwise it will do more harm than good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojzzCXq5ook

Then, watch this a couple times and follow all steps to a tee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE4yVgdVW7s

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Bill_Steele

506 posts in 2094 days


#2 posted 04-18-2019 03:55 PM

I would make sure the back of the plane iron (the first 1” from the cutting edge) is flat. Work that flat with all your stones—use a sharpie to gauge your progress.

To get rid of the tracks you want to camber the plane iron a little. I was never really successful doing this by hand—but I know it can be done. I have a Tormek now and that is how I apply the camber. Maybe you can slightly round the corners off the cutting edge—that may help lessen the tracks.

It sounds like the plane iron is not straight in the opening. I don’t think you should have the lateral adjustment all the way to one side. Maybe you can check to see if the frog is approximately square to the opening and check to make sure that you sharpened the blade so that the cutting edge is 90 degrees to the edge of the iron.

If you know that the projection you used will result in a 30 degree bevel then great! I saw something a while back where the person checked the angle using one of those Wixey angle guides—that seems like a good idea.
The micro bevel I apply is only 1 or 2 degrees more than the primary and only on the bevel side not the back side of the plane iron.

Make sure that the chip breaker is tight against the plane iron and very close to the cutting edge. I try to set mine no more than 1/32” away.

Try to adjust the frog so that the opening between the cutting edge and the sole of the plane is less. This is equivalent to an adjustable mouth mechanism.

I keep a chunk of paraffin close when I’m using a hand plane and frequently “wipe down” the bottom of the plane. It’s amazing how much easier it slides when waxed.

I always fine-tune the plane after sharpening and adjusting. Using a scrap of wood in the vise I try to plane the wood and I make adjustments until I am happy with the shaving: (1) plane iron projection from the sole of the plane (2) lateral adjustment to cut the full width of the plane iron (3) adjust the frog to close the mouth

When I can get a full width shaving thin enough to read through—I feel like I’m ready to use it on my work piece

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Vbryanv

5 posts in 36 days


#3 posted 04-18-2019 04:42 PM

Thanks for the videos/help

Right now I have the main bevel that the blade came with which I assume is 25° and the micro bevel I created that was about 30°.
Should I sand out my micro bevel?

In the 2nd video he says that he doesn’t mess with micro bevels

-- Anything can be fixed!!!!

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SMP

864 posts in 268 days


#4 posted 04-18-2019 05:01 PM


Thanks for the videos/help

Right now I have the main bevel that the blade came with which I assume is 25° and the micro bevel I created that was about 30°.
Should I sand out my micro bevel?

In the 2nd video he says that he doesn t mess with micro bevels

- Vbryanv

I just looked at your location, and you are only 30ish miles from Tools FOr Working Wood in Brooklyn. Man if I lived that close I would take every class they have. Check it out, their sharpening class is $60 and you can apply that to a $25 gift certificate to the store. I’m sure someone would help you get your plane set up. Maybe its something simple.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/1158

other classes

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/store/dept/CCS

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Smirak

97 posts in 880 days


#5 posted 04-18-2019 05:30 PM

One question that I didn’t see asked/answered is why is your lateral adjustment lever pushed all the way to the left??? Do you know how to set the projection of the blade and what the lateral adjustment lever actually does? Not being rude, but want to know…

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tywalt

36 posts in 526 days


#6 posted 04-18-2019 07:41 PM

I’m with Smirak here in as polite a way as possible :) If your lateral adjustment is cranked all the way over, and the blade’s cutting edge is still not parallel with the plane sole, that would cause tracks. The internet has a way of blowing things out of proportion as people share their “opinions” of the best way to do things. A micro bevel and cambering the edges are fine… but PLEASE do not think that either of those is necessary. I use a handplane on every project and never use a micro bevel or camber any of my irons (with the exception of my scrub plane).

I would recommend checking your cutting edge is parallel with the sole first. Remove your iron from the plane, reset your lat adjustment lever to the center(ish) of the frog. Reinstall your iron and – by eye – get an even amount of daylight on either side of the blade so it is as centered as you can get it before you lock it down. It is easiest to do this with a light background underneath your plane so you can actually see the gaps. To check alignment, back your blade all the way back so it is not taking a shaving at all. Then take a thin piece of wood on either the left or right edge and progress your blade forward until it JUST starts to take a shaving. Then move that thin piece of wood to the opposite side of the blade and see if it is taking a deeper shaving or none at all. Use your lateral adjustment lever to adjust the blade until it is barely taking a shaving evenly from both sides of the blade’s cutting edge.

Regarding the finish you are getting. I’d be curious to know what kind of wood you are testing on. If your test piece has grain running in both directions it can cause “tear out” regardless of how sharp your cutting edge is. Most people liken this to petting a cat: you want to pet in the direction of the hair, not against… if your cat has a cowlick in it’s hair though, all bets are off! I’d recommend testing on a nice straight grain piece of wood before you give up!

Hopefully all that makes sense. Stick with it, hand planing a piece of wood is one of my favorite things in the world and is oddly satisfying once you get the hang of it. There is a bit of a learning curve.

-- Tyler - Central TX

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Bill_Steele

506 posts in 2094 days


#7 posted 04-18-2019 07:49 PM

If your plane is truly sharp—then I would not worry about the micro-bevel—I can’t imagine that it is really much of a factor in how well it will plane. I think the point of applying a micro-bevel is to reduce the effort to hone the blade—since you only need to hone the micro-bevel and not the entire primary bevel.

When you hone your plane iron are you getting a small burr along the entire cutting edge? Remove the burr before you change grits.

You have a 12,000 grit water stone? That must be very smooth. It seems like a big jump from 1000 to 12,000. I have an 8000 grit diamond stone that does not feel abrasive at all—it feels very smooth. I use it only to polish the back or bevel. I think 600/1000 is all you probably need to get an edge sharp enough to plane wood well.

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Kirk650

631 posts in 1110 days


#8 posted 04-18-2019 09:50 PM

Toughest plane I ever tuned up for use was an old Stanley 4 1/2. And I’ll echo others in that you need sharp, but don’t need a microbevel. Go take the class on sharpening and ask for suggestions on setting up the plane for use. Or drive down to Texas and I’ll show you and then we have beer.

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Andre

2575 posts in 2168 days


#9 posted 04-18-2019 11:08 PM

Only W.R. plane I ever owned had the same problem, mouth bed not 90 degrees! E-bay buy that went into scrap metal recycle bin.

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

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Vbryanv

5 posts in 36 days


#10 posted 04-19-2019 02:06 AM

I can get nice shaving in the center of the blade but the lateral adjustment arm is almost 90% of the way to the left. Just seems odd.
I just can’t get the shaving very long. Seems very hard to push the plane. I almost always get chatter and the plane want to bounce it I don’t have the power to push through the stroke. But it seems very sharp. Also every stroke is leaving a line one the left sift side of the wood. I have a better stroke and cleaner finish but not smooth when going against the grain.

I can’t remember what kind of wood it is right now. I’m having a brain fart. Is a 8/4 live edge for a radiator cover for the many I am making for my in-laws.

-- Anything can be fixed!!!!

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Vbryanv

5 posts in 36 days


#11 posted 04-19-2019 03:14 AM

I remember it’s elder

-- Anything can be fixed!!!!

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CaptainKlutz

1236 posts in 1856 days


#12 posted 04-19-2019 04:34 AM

+1 lateral adjustment all the way to one side coupled with excess chatter tells me there might be an issue, probably between alignment of frog and base, or blade to frog?

Check the blade/cap iron first. Are they uniform thickness down length and on both sides? Is the center slot in blade actually located in the center of blade? If every thing measures right dimensions with calipers, then move on to the frog. If not, take it back to Woodcraft and get new parts.

- Remove the blade, is the top of frog flat, free of burrs, and square to sides?
No – fix it, or return the plane.
- With blade out, check the frog alignment to base. Is it square to sides, and front edge parallel to mouth?
No – adjust frog position and check cut quality again.
Yes – keep going.
Not that uncommon on old Stanley 2nd tier planes to find a frog not sitting level on the base. When this happens, the blade is shifted out of plan with mouth/base, and does not cut evenly. Your new plane could have same issue:
- Remove the frog from the plane. Look for burrs, or uneven machining on base and bottom of frog.
- Mark mating area in base with sharpie.
- Using some 80 grit sand paper, rub the frog on the base casting and check for even contact.
: If uneven contact, either take plane back to Woodcraft for replacement, or fettle the frog/base with files/sandpaper to fit well. Be sure to check if frog bottom is flat/square, before using it match fit and square up the frog to base to mouth.
- Clean up sanding grit, oil the bare metal parts. reassemble and test again.

IMHO – If there is an issue with frog/base casting that needs adjusting, this is unacceptable for new WR plane. If you were buying a Grizzly $75 plane, then you deal with it; but not for $200+ plane. Take it back to store, show them the problem, and have them show you the new one does not have same error.

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

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hotbyte

1000 posts in 3337 days


#13 posted 04-19-2019 11:00 AM

My first hand plane was a Wood River 5-1/2. The Woodcraft employee took time to work with me on initial setup and it worked great. As Capt Klutz suggested, take it back to store to see what they say.

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Sylvain

823 posts in 2861 days


#14 posted 04-19-2019 12:17 PM

If one look at a skewed rabbet plane , one will see that the iron is grind obliquely.
( click on “Instr” in the middle of the web page and go to the 5th page of the instruction document)

This clearly shows that, on a straight plane, if the intersection of the ‘geometric-plane of the iron bedding’ with the ‘geometric-plane of the sole’ is not perpendicular to the ‘length of the plane’:
- either a square iron will protrude more on one side
- or the iron has to be grind out of square.
The lateral adjustment can compensate minor misalignment or out of square iron.
Otherwise,
- try pivoting the frog a little bit, to correct any bedding skew;
- verify the iron is grind square;
- verify the cap-iron has his two side parallel and perpendicular to the business end;
- as Tywalt said “Reinstall your iron and – by eye – get an even amount of daylight on either side of the blade so it is as centered as you can get it before you lock it down.”

Then try on a thin piece of wood as shown by Paul Sellers.

To avoid tracks: round slightly the two iron corners and take fine shavings.

“I just can’t get the shaving very long. Seems very hard to push the plane. I almost always get chatter and the plane want to bounce it I don’t have the power to push through the stroke.”
After sharpening and stropping, ensure you have a relief angle under the iron, otherwise, the plane will skate on the wood (except at the edge of the board where it will bite). When the iron skates on the wood, one will try a deeper cut setting and push vertically on the plane. Then the flexing of the plane makes it bite here and there as you describe.
When stropping be careful not to curl the cutting edge (see Paul Sellers video).

-- Sylvain, Brussels, Belgium, Europe - The more I learn, the more there is to learn

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Combo Prof

3819 posts in 1639 days


#15 posted 04-19-2019 12:25 PM

I agree with CaptainKlutz your frog is likely to be out of square. It can be adjusted. I also agree that micro bevels are completely unnecessary. You also need to adjust that $10 honing guide as shown in the first video that SMP suggests. Take a square and see if the cutting edge is perpendicular to the side. When sharpening remove the corners with a few strokes on the stones so that you don’t get the lines or you can put a slight camber on the blade. (I don’t for a smoothing plane I just ease the corners.) You don’t need the water stone. You do need green honing paste and a strop. You didn’t need to buy a new blade. I tested a Wood River in the store and they do seem to work fine.

-- Don K, (Holland, Michigan)

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