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Forum topic by Mainboom posted 04-09-2019 11:31 PM 614 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Mainboom

92 posts in 811 days


04-09-2019 11:31 PM

I did the math already and I came up with a .200 under the static pressure loss of the cyclone I bought. this is for a 86 foot run which includes elbows etc like I said I did the math. now this is kinda big for what I actually need but it would be ideal for placement purposes. plus it had a lot of flex hose which lends to a larger static pressure drop.

Am I expecting to much ? the unit is 763 cfm at 6 inches and static pressure 8.268. I came up with a max needed cfm of 400 and a static loss of 8.000. Again the run I figured for might be a little extreme plus it had a lot of flex hose in it and I can make it all pvc. this is just so I can run it in the air and not on my floor and have to step over it. ill also be putting blast gates in for everything.I have been running a shop vac and dust deputy with about 30 foot of hose total at 150cfm. and it did ok when I decided to drag the hose around.

So again am I expecting to much with a 86 foot run ? Also what is the average run most people are making. Again this is a design in progress. going to a 2hp wasn’t fesable with having 2 220v machines already.

-- CRANE OPERATORS START EARLY because iron workers need their heros ready when they wake up


17 replies so far

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Redoak49

5179 posts in 3042 days


#1 posted 04-10-2019 12:10 AM

That is a really long run for that dust collector.

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Mainboom

92 posts in 811 days


#2 posted 04-10-2019 12:24 AM

like I said I figured for what would be ideal not how I was gonna actually do it like that. im aware it is a really long run . also you have to realize the actual run isn’t that long the actual run is only 40 ft with all the elbows and flex pipe the numbers work out to 86 ft . so in reality its not that long of a run but it is when looking at the numbers

-- CRANE OPERATORS START EARLY because iron workers need their heros ready when they wake up

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2818 posts in 3937 days


#3 posted 04-10-2019 03:53 AM

Interested what calculator you used for the static pressure. I used your numbers and came up with over 9” static pressure using 30’ of straight pipe, 4×45 degree elbows and 10’ of flex duct, assuming you use 6” ducting

I couldn’t find a fan curve for the Jet 1.5hp cyclone but comparing it with other DC with 1.5HP and a 13” impeller, it will be lucky to get over 100CFM at the end of your run.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6923 posts in 3547 days


#4 posted 04-10-2019 10:37 AM

It’s guesswork at this point; you didn’t mention what size ducting you plan to use. But even with more specifics it would be guesswork. You can 1) try and see if it does want, or 2) assume from the getgo it (the DC) is too small (that’s what I’m thinking).

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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EarlS

4403 posts in 3402 days


#5 posted 04-10-2019 11:25 AM

Don’t forget to also check the velocity in the duct. Sawduct carrying velocity is ~3500 ft/min. I’m doubtful that the DC will provide the suction and necessary line velocity for the application.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

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dorald

91 posts in 2846 days


#6 posted 04-10-2019 12:24 PM

Interesting way of approach this situation, Sir. Almost thought of everything . . . Almost.

Coming from the an industry where air flow / velocity / temperature zones are extremely important, it looks like you might be able to gain a few CFM’s and volume by looking at these areas;
1.) Try and use, where ever possible, 45’s in lieu of 90’s.
2.) The straight pipe BEFORE & AFTER a turn is very important in order to reduce / induce flow turbulence within the pipe. This allows the flow to settle down b/f & a/f the turn.
3.) There are flex hoses and then there are flex hoses. Check the ID to see if it is smooth. there are some out there that resemble an old country gravel road. . . not good for air flow stability, etc.
4.) HP of the DC blower is NOT as important as the output of the unit relative to the impeller design. Check the clearance b/t it and the housing & if possible, upgrade to a larger impeller reducing the clearance. You will probably have to “trim” the impeller a bit, but you will receive a much better output / CFM / PSI / etc. if you do your homework here. Remember this is the “Head of the Stream” so to speak.

. . . Or you could just WING IT like the rest of us do and use our hand to check to see if there is any suction at the opening . . .

Good Luck!

Dorald

-- No one can make you feel inferior unless you give them permission. . .

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EarlS

4403 posts in 3402 days


#7 posted 04-10-2019 01:03 PM

If you start messing around with the impeller you will also have to keep an eye on the motor so you don’t overload the amps and trip it. There is a lot going on when you start tweaking a blower curve.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

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dorald

91 posts in 2846 days


#8 posted 04-10-2019 01:04 PM

Agree EarlS . . . Very important point.

-- No one can make you feel inferior unless you give them permission. . .

View Mainboom's profile

Mainboom

92 posts in 811 days


#9 posted 04-10-2019 11:41 PM

ok 3rd attempt at this reply. ill try not to ramble.

All my numbers came from wood workers journal article for static loss. everything I figured so far was for 4 inch pvc and some flex hose. im aware 86 ft would be a lot that’s just the distance I got from all the fittings and flex hose. fittings and especially flex hose represent a much greater loss. and this number is for worst case

IN REALITY…. im dealing with a 24×30 shop. I plan to make a 24 ft run of 6 inch across the shop. so a 45 coming out of the cyclone(maybe 3 foot straight if I have room) to a 6 inch pipe going up on a 45 to another 45 when I hit the ceiling. straight run for 4 ft to a wyie for drop down 1. 3 ft run out of the wyie to another wyie for drop down 2. then the rest will run to the oppsite wall and ill use 2 45’s come down the wall about 5 feet to a Tee. and for 5 ft each way off that Tee with 2 inch on one side and 4 on the other. So its gonna be about 35 to 40 ft with the drop downs total about.

So how much static loss is to much ? ill look at the impeller clearance. its a 13 inch if I remember right. I have read the clearview website info by that bill pletz I think and watched till I cant watch anymore on youtube. exact placement is not nailed down I don’t get the unit till maybe Monday. so it will sit atleast all next week. im just not sure if im missing anything. I get the shorter the run the better im well aware. use as much straight pipe as I can. more 45’s less to no 90’s. I guess ill just see how it goes if it don’t work ill do it over. lol

-- CRANE OPERATORS START EARLY because iron workers need their heros ready when they wake up

View dorald's profile

dorald

91 posts in 2846 days


#10 posted 04-11-2019 02:00 AM

Definitely done your homework. Although hardly never mentioned is the PITCH of the runs. Like water, try and gently pitch runs towards the cyclone. Also, if you are a stickler for details, pack the joints with ribbon caulk. I got it in the weatherstripping aisle @ HD. It comes in 6” or 8” long ribbons 5 or 6 side by side. Some just wrap electrical tape around the joints but I don’t care for that approach. Just a personal preference. It does, however, make a difference in efficiency somewhat.

Good Luck and keep us posted on your results please!

Dorald

-- No one can make you feel inferior unless you give them permission. . .

View MikeDilday's profile

MikeDilday

287 posts in 1513 days


#11 posted 04-11-2019 03:18 AM

Do you have a drawing? 86 foot sounds like too much for a 30’ shop. You really have to be efficient with your pipe for a 24×30 shop with 1.5 hp to make it work.

-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2818 posts in 3937 days


#12 posted 04-11-2019 04:13 AM

Based on your numbers your cyclone will be too small for your setup. My 5hp cyclone would struggle with your setup. The max run in my 25×40ft shop is ~45ft and I get just over 400CFM from running 6” duct in the longest run. This is with a 5hp cyclone with a 15” impeller. Bill Pentz has a great static pressure calculator on his site, there are others online that give similar numbers; essentially with your combo of 6 and 4” ducting you’ll be lucky to get more than 100CFM on your longest run. If you’re trying to keep your shop looking clean, it’ll probably be enough, if you’re trying to capture the harmful small dust, you won’t achieve it. If I was forced to use a small cyclone with your setup, I’d make it portable rather than trying to have it piped.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

4403 posts in 3402 days


#13 posted 04-11-2019 11:50 AM



If I was forced to use a small cyclone with your setup, I d make it portable rather than trying to have it piped.

- Manitario

That is probably your best performing, least expensive, least complicated, least problematic approach

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View Robert's profile

Robert

4521 posts in 2535 days


#14 posted 04-11-2019 01:15 PM

I don’t need the math ;-)—- you don’t have enough blower for that much ducting.

Get a 5HP.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View MikeDilday's profile

MikeDilday

287 posts in 1513 days


#15 posted 04-11-2019 05:21 PM



I don t need the math ;-)—- you don t have enough blower for that much ducting.

Get a 5HP.

- Robert

If he decreases the runs which he should be able to do with those dimensions, uses 6” mains and 4” drops he should be ok with 3 hp. My shop is not much smaller and I am using a 3hp Jet Canister and it works great.

-- Michael Dilday, Suffolk, Va.

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