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Forum topic by squish posted 04-02-2019 01:03 PM 607 views 0 times favorited 8 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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squish

3 posts in 225 days


04-02-2019 01:03 PM

Topic tags/keywords: workspace design dust collector electrical question

I’m fortunate to get to build a new 330sf basement workshop. I’m curious whether anyone here has advice with respect to power, dust/vent, lighting, and other aspects before construction begins.

This workshop will be unfinished space, with sealed joists and doors to prevent dust getting into the rest of the house. It’s rectangular, about 19’x17’, with a pair of 3’ wide doors exiting to the outside and a large window on one long wall (to the outside), another pair of 3’ doors on the opposite wall into unfinished storage space, a 2’8” door into the house, and one concrete wall (below grade).

I’ve currently asked for
  • 3-4 dedicated circuits, including 1 30A breaker with 220V outlet in one corner (for a dust collector)
  • 2 (or maybe 4) in-floor 110V outlets for various standing equipment
  • 2 in-ceiling wall outlets (one for a ceiling mounted Jet AFS-1000B air filtration system)
  • many 110V wall outlets for various other equipment
  • ceiling lights: LED 4000K cool white 4ft surface mount shop lights, fixtures spaced 4ft apart (in both directions and from walls)

Recommendations for dust collector? I’m thinking the Shop Fox W1685, which has 6” inlet, 1280 CFM, 2.5µm, 80-85dB. Should I vent to the outside by the dust collector? I’ve seen some threads here and it seems like a debated topic. This particular collector seems to not need a vent to the outside / be able to use one.

Current equipment:
  • Table saw
  • tabletop router
  • CNC router
  • various handhelds
  • 2 workbenches
  • 2 assembly tables
  • electronics table with dust cover
  • wood storage rack (I’ll place this on the wall by the exterior doors, for easy loading)
    I’d like to get a stationary planer, now that I’ll have space for one. Maybe Shop Fox W1742S?

What else should I consider when designing this space?

Thanks in advance!


8 replies so far

View them700project's profile

them700project

171 posts in 1553 days


#1 posted 04-02-2019 01:34 PM

Only issues I can think of to overcome in a basement shop would be Head room/ Dust and fumes getting in the house. You have the dust issue taken care of with sealed door. Another thing I would want would be a sidewall fan to pull fumes out when finishing.

I would figure where your 220 machines will be and locate the recepticals for them other than that perimeter 20 amp power with alternating circuits is fine(maybe 4 circuits). I also have 1 ceiling outlet for my air cleaner.

If your planning on the 1.5 hp DC a 30 amp 220 may be a little big, that will support a 5hp dc. My original DC had a 110 20 amp

As for the DC you can only vent outside if you have a separator. Otherwise you will just be spraying all the dust outside. I liked starting with the style collector you are looking at. I kept it as is for about a year then I added a new filter and a seperator and bin. This made it easier to empty and breath around. Later I ducted it. But once I added a big jointer/planer to the mix it wasnt cutting it so I am in the middle of a Clearvue install.

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them700project

171 posts in 1553 days


#2 posted 04-02-2019 01:37 PM

Also dont overbuild a miter station and lose most of your space. Thats what I did :(

Make sure the wall outlets are over you bench heights

View HackFabrication's profile

HackFabrication

159 posts in 246 days


#3 posted 04-02-2019 03:55 PM


I ve currently asked for 3-4 dedicated circuits, including 1 30A breaker with 220V outlet in one corner (for a dust collector) 2 (or maybe 4) in-floor 110V outlets for various standing equipment 2 in-ceiling wall outlets (one for a ceiling mounted Jet AFS-1000B air filtration system) many 110V wall outlets for various other equipment * ceiling lights: LED 4000K cool white 4ft surface mount shop lights, fixtures spaced 4ft apart (in both directions and from walls)

Recommendations for dust collector? I m thinking the Shop Fox W1685, which has 6” inlet, 1280 CFM, 2.5µm, 80-85dB. Should I vent to the outside by the dust collector?

- squish

I wouldn’t do any floor outlets. I’m not an electrician, nor an inspector, but having outlets on a potentially wet floor (and sub-grade in an area) is a big no-no. Also, even if they’re code, they lock you into placement of machines.

330sqft is something like 15’x22’ (or a mathematical computation of other linear feet). Not huge, but workable, my basement is 25’x30’, and my basement shop (the area I work in) is roughly a bit less than that, and L shaped, occupying 2 of the four walls. I need to share the basement with the furnace, HVAC duct work, stairwell (which comes down the center of the space), and seasonal storage items.

Are you planning the electric running off your main panel, or installing a sub-panel? If you go the sub-panel route, definitely go at least 100amp.

The 30amp 220 dedicated circuit is good, if you decide on a 3hp DC system. Otherwise a dedicated 20amp will do for smaller DC’s. You might also think about an additional 220 circuit, just in case a bigger saw is in your unforseen future.

A few ceiling outlets are good, but you will need to run wiring anyway for the shop lights. I’m a fan of dedicated circuits, so I’d have the lights on one (if you plan to control them all at once), and the other ceiling outlets on another. You can never have too many lights. I’d think seriously about tool/workbench placement before determining where to mount lighting. Also, you should think about controlling the lights from a couple different switches. Nothing worse than going up the basement stairs, and forgetting to turn the lights off….

There is little point in running any 15amp circuits. Your expense increase, is only in the romex price difference between 12-2 and 14-2.

If you chose to vent your DC outside, you need to be certain you aren’t expelling the dust where it will just get sucked back into the house. Have an idea which way the prevailing winds blow before settling on an exit point. And yes, you will need to have a 2 stage DC. Otherwise, you will have a big mess to clean outside…

Selecting a DC depends a lot on you pocketbook. And with limited floor space, you should be looking for an ‘all in one’ setup. Grizzly has a few 2hp and 3hp models that are reasonably priced for what you get. Or you can spend 2 or 3 times more. But for what you’re talking about, I don’t see a lot of need to go to a system that will support 8” ducting. 5”-6” should be more than adequate.

I have a Powertec air filtration system, which I recently mounted to the floor joists in my basement shop. It is the bigger model, 1044 cfm on high. Works great, catches a lot of the airborne dust. There is much debate as to the correct placement of these, so do you research, and make your own decision on where to mount it.

Casters or mobile bases. You may find it more advantageous to be able to move machinery around, rather than to work around it. Just about everything in my basement shop is on mobile bases, except for the workbench and lathe. Floor space is a premium in my shop, so I need the flexibility to ‘wall’ machinery that isn’t actively being used. Natually, my tablesaw with it’s folding outfeed table, takes up the most room, and it can only go in one location if I’m ripping sheet goods or long lumber. Same for the planer and joiner. You need to budget enough free space on both the infeed and outfeed ends. Power miter boxes are pretty much the same, if you plan on cutting long pieces.

-- "In the end, it's all Hack..."

View Sawdust35's profile

Sawdust35

68 posts in 1397 days


#4 posted 04-02-2019 06:05 PM

squish- I have had a basement shop since 2012. Basement is still unfinished, below grade, with double door walkout. For dust collection I have an Oneida-Air V3000 cyclone with HEPA filter that connected to duct work with a blast gate for each machine and a floor sweep. I believe the V3000 is rated at a decibel of 75ish. To help filter the ambient air I have a Jet AFS 1000 with a Wynn filter (MERV 16 rated) to collect exhaust air.

For each machine, I have spent time optimizing the dust collection efficiency. In hindsight the only thing I would change is buying the nordfab style duct work because it creates less friction and is very quick/easy to modify duct layout. I think I am on my 5th layout of shop equipment and thereby duct layout. I am very happy with the dust collection both in CFM, minimal maintanence and cleanliness of shop.

One project I plan on working on in coming weeks is to install Roxul safe-n-sound insulation in the ceiling and the interior walls that support the stairs to upstairs. This will make a large improvement in sound transfer from my shop. When it comes to finishing projects, anything with a high VOC I only apply in garage.
Electrical/lighting info: I have 9 LED lights from Rockler (their linkable 7500 Lumen 4’ shop lights) for a shop area that is about 25’x30’ (L-shaped shop). These lights are on a 15 amp circuit. I have one 20-amp 110V circuit for (miter saw, table saw, router, bandsaw, drill press and auxillary outlets), one 20AMP 220V circuit for dust collector only, and a 30-AMP 220V circuit for jointer and planer.

Everything is on casters or mobile base (excluding dust collector and outfeed table of tablesaw). The mobility of each tool helps with giving the shop a through cleaning and also if you have to do some larger projects (such as cabinets) or a table.
For storage I built cabinets into my outfeed table, under my table saw, under my miter saw station, under my bench top drill press. Also, router table has enough storage to hold anything related to router function.

If you have the option to buy a planer and/or jointer, I would buy one with a segmented helical head. They are much quieter and handle figured wood better than knives. Matt Cremona recently posted a video on youtube about changing planer head to a shelix and the noise drop was very significant.

View squish's profile

squish

3 posts in 225 days


#5 posted 04-07-2019 06:20 AM

Thanks all for the great advice. I really appreciate your input.


Another thing I would want would be a sidewall fan to pull fumes out when finishing.

I should be ok on ventilation. I’ll have large side doors to the outside, and I could always do high VOC work in the garage instead as Sawdust35 mentioned.


Make sure the wall outlets are over you bench heights

Yes! I have that in my current garage workspace and love it.


I wouldn’t do any floor outlets. I’m not an electrician, nor an inspector, but having outlets on a potentially wet floor (and sub-grade in an area) is a big no-no. Also, even if they’re code, they lock you into placement of machines.

I checked with the builder, and the floor outlets are up to code. I think I’ll be ok on flexible placement; I went with four floor outlets spaced around the center part of the room, with covers flush with the floor. Instead of locking me into equipment placement, they’re giving me another option beyond just running a cable from a wall outlet or overhead across the ceiling. If a machine is close enough to a floor outlet, cool; if not, no biggie.


Are you planning the electric running off your main panel, or installing a sub-panel? If you go the sub-panel route, definitely go at least 100amp.
...
I’m a fan of dedicated circuits, so I’d have the lights on one (if you plan to control them all at once), and the other ceiling outlets on another. You can never have too many lights.

Thanks, this is great advice! I see others also recommending 100A sub-panel. I asked for a couple of 220V outlets, for future expansion, and will also ask for lights on circuits. There’s one main entrance to the workshop, so I’ll at least have light switches there, and maybe also on the opposite side of the room.


Casters or mobile bases. You may find it more advantageous to be able to move machinery around, rather than to work around it. Just about everything in my basement shop is on mobile bases, except for the workbench and lathe.

Agreed, and I need to take care that any casters I install myself can handle the weight. I made the mistake once of putting inadequate casters on a mobile wood cart, and fully-loaded it just crushed them.

View squish's profile

squish

3 posts in 225 days


#6 posted 04-07-2019 06:27 AM

Thanks, Sawdust35, I really appreciate the photo and details. Your workshop arrangement set-up sounds very similar to what I’m going for.

Your Jet AFS 1000 looks just like mine, but you’ve connected it to duct work! Very interesting. In my current
workshop, I just have it sucking in ambient air.


In hindsight the only thing I would change is buying the nordfab style duct work because it creates less friction and is very quick/easy to modify duct layout. I think I am on my 5th layout of shop equipment and thereby duct layout. I am very happy with the dust collection both in CFM, minimal maintanence and cleanliness of shop.

Perfect, thanks for this. I will explore nordfab ducts.


I have 9 LED lights from Rockler (their linkable 7500 Lumen 4 shop lights) for a shop area that is about 25×30 (L-shaped shop). These lights are on a 15 amp circuit.

Interesting, thanks. So I probably need less even fewer ceiling lights, given my smaller space.


If you have the option to buy a planer and/or jointer, I would buy one with a segmented helical head. They are much quieter and handle figured wood better than knives. Matt Cremona recently posted a video on youtube about changing planer head to a shelix and the noise drop was very significant.

Excellent recommendations! I appreciate all the focus on noise dB—I will make sure to pay careful attention to that as I research equipment options.

Thank you so much!

View BlueRidgeDog's profile

BlueRidgeDog

499 posts in 314 days


#7 posted 04-07-2019 11:17 AM

I work in my basement. It is 1000 square feet, but there is also laundry and storage there. Some things I can suggest:
Never put outlets into a floor
Lights at 4’ will be okay to start, but you will want a few more in strategic places once you get setup (over the table saw, over the work bench)
I live on two 240v circuits, one dedicated to the dust collection system and one to tools. The tool leg has outlets for all the tools that need it obviously, but I ran a neutral to them as well so I can have a 120v outlet with them.
My space is not connected to the house HVAC.
I sand very little. If done right, wood that is milled and planed should only need a light finish sanding if any.
I only use low VOC finishes…suits me anyway. My finish routine is now down to Osmo and Shellac.
I have a table outside for when I need to do serious sanding or work with finishes other than the above.
Head room is the killer…I would love a shop with a 10’ ceiling.
I have a sink in the shop. I could not live without it.
I have two benches…a woodworking bench and a workbench. Workbench gets all the dirty work.
Since my basement is below grade, I have a dehumidifier running 24/7 to keep the space dry for my wood. It is plumed into a drain so I don’t have to tend to it.
Wood storage has to be factored into your layout as you will want to acquire wood months if not a year before using it.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1343 posts in 1030 days


#8 posted 04-07-2019 04:13 PM

My advice for any shop is to consider the material workflow as you are doing your layout. Think about placing your material storage close to the door where you will bring it into the shop, have your miter saw near that so you can slide a board off the rack onto the miter saw station. I like to have my miter saw (and RAS), Table saw and jointer located just a few steps away from each other since I work between them frequently. I like my table saw centrally located in the shop oriented along the long wall. Leave lots of open space for assembly.

Im on my fourth shop, my biggest regret with this one Is not listening to my electrician when he advised that I install a sub panel in my shop. Machines not along the wall can be powered (and DC piped) from the ceiling. Much easier if you need to move things a few feet in the future. You can never have enough light in a basement shop. Good that you have some windows.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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