First post to LJ (so if it's in the wrong forum forgive and move). And it's (of course) another HF dust collector upgrade post. I recently acquired my CraigsList dust collector. Previous owner only used it for one job: Removing attic insulation. It was 'as new'. Got it for $100, then the upgrades started: Ditched the bag, got a Wynn filter.
Added the Rikon impeller:
Then modified the opening to 6" using a bellmouth flange from Air Handling Systems. The blower housing mod came with the usual anxieties of cutting a perfectly good part to make it a great part. But that's what we do at Hack Fabrication.
Comparison with the original 5" HF flange:
A big shout out to Air Handling Systems for helping with the flange. The original one I purchased from them, wasn't a true 6". After a quick phone call, they fabricated one up with a 6" collar that is 100% welded to the bellmouth flange. Regular 6" steel duct pipe slips securely over it. As does 6" flex hose. The part was pricey (as was shipping), but the new and improved flange came free. Great customer service!
The new flange was installed with 1/8" poprivets using backer washers on the outside. This was to prevent any contact with the lager Rikon impeller. There is a healthy coat of silicon sealant between the flange and the housing. There was not interference with the impeller doing this.
This DC is now a beast with the new impeller. It will literally 'suck' your hand into the impeller if you aren't careful!
Picked up a fiber 30 gallon barrel, and installed the Super Dust Deputy. The barrel has a fiber top, but I don't see it flexing any more than a thin gauge metal top. Seems to be fine, and only time will tell.
For now, I plan to plumb the impeller housing to the SDD using 6" steel piping. I'm going to clamp it together, so it can be disassembled when 'the time comes'.
Next is to come up with some design to make this somewhat mobile until I decide on a permanent mounting for it. Lots of good ideas here on LJ, and I've been 'stealing' a lot of them!
Looks like a nice setup. I did mine without upgrading the impeller or modifying the housing and saw nice improvements. Looks like yours went together nicely!
After spending the time and money to modify mine, I wish I would have just sucked it up and bought a factory system with the same features. When you figure:
~$150 HF dust collector
~$150 Super dust deputy
~$200 Wynn filter
~$100 impeller upgrade
~$30 drum or other
I sometimes wish i would have just spent the extra $300 for a manufactrued machine on casters and less time modifying a dust collector. Just my expierience, but for some people an extra $300 is not feasible.
Here's a pic of the inside of the impeller housing plate with the bellmouth attached:
And another of the upgraded blower housing with the flange:
And yes, I can see where in the end it is probably more advantageous to just go buy a machine with all the 'bells and whistles'.
But where's the fun in that?.....
So far I've got:
$100 for the DC
$225 for the Wynn Filter
$180 for the SDD
$120 for the Rikon impeller
$30 for the fiber drum
$53 for the bellmouth flange
$40 in fittings
$70 in flex hose
I'm a bit under $830 total, with probably another $50-100 in extending the stock HF cart to hold the drum. A Mini Gorilla from Oneida is around $1350 + shipping.
So I'm thinking about going this route next: Extending the stock HF mobile base with some angle iron and a 1/2" plywood platform. Then plumbing the impeller to the SDD with steel ducting.
Thoughts? I'll add a single swiveling caster under the platform to handle any weight distribution issues.
Some more progress on the DC. Got the base extension all bolted down:
Finished up the piping/duct work:
I'm using a simple 1/2" black iron pipe with a couple of floor flanges to support the ducting. Without support, the suction will compress the 6" flex pipe going into the SDD (and deflect/bend the ducting). The wood blocking is temporary while I wait for the glued up pieced to dry and get fitted. As it sets now, a lot of noise is being generated from the plastic bag under the filter 'flapping around'. Everything else is reasonably quiet.
Most likely, I will use a couple of worm clamps to secure the short crossover duct to the vertical support pipe. Should keep it pretty stable, as I've done a couple of test runs without the pipe flange bolted to the base, and it works fine.
Quick anemometer reading at the 4" flex hose end, pegged the meter above 5700 fpm (speed over 67mph). Crude calculation is approximately 500 cfm at the end. I'll take some better readings when everything is 'bolted down' and taped up with aluminum duct tape.
Ultimately, this will find a semi-permanent location in my basement shop, and get plumbed into 5" main duct work with 4" drops for machines.
Got the crossover duct brace fabricated and installed. I need to recess the clamps a bit further into the block, as the duct is resting on top of the screws and not the wood. Simple fix.
I picked up a pair of 3" casters at HF for the extension platform. It's a bit tippy right now and will definitely need the support as the drum starts filling. Will get to installing them this week. Then I'll take it all apart and pretty it up a bit with some boiled Linseed oil on the extension base, and black paint for the support rod pipe/flanges.
The discharge flange on the blower housing is leaking a lot of air, so that is going to need a good re-seal. And I plan on using aluminum duct tape on all the joints.
It's cheap stickon vinyl tiles that the previous owner of my house laid down 40 years ago. He failed to complete the job, as there are many uncovered areas. They are a PITA to get up, so I haven't removed them for something better.
First, all the work shown here looks really good, and well done. I am sure it makes a nice system.
And then,
... After spending the time and money to modify mine, I wish I would have just sucked it up and bought a factory system with the same features. ...
- BoilerUp21
Every time I see one of these threads I read it, because I am so intrigued with the cult of HF-DC Mods. And I am with you on this one, Boilerup21.
Each time I read such a thread, I am pleased that I just waited till I felt I could afford it, and bought a nice system that worked on plug-in, and does a great job for me. (I do need to update and rework some DC piping in the shop, though.)
While I am intrigued with the mod group, I guess I simply prefer messing with woodworking over messing with machinery modification. But still, I do understand and I know there are plenty of folks that like to seriously mod their cars, or bicycles, or computers, or BBQs, ... and so on.
I am curious about the floor in your shop. Is that stamped concrete? It looks really cool
It s cheap stickon vinyl tiles that the previous owner of my house laid down 40 years ago. He failed to complete the job, as there are many uncovered areas. They are a PITA to get up, so I haven t removed them for something better.
Thanks! Hopefully it will fulfill it's mission for me.
Each time I read such a thread, I am pleased that I just waited till I felt I could afford it, and bought a nice system that worked on plug-in, and does a great job for me.
But still, I do understand and I know there are plenty of folks that like to seriously mod their cars, or bicycles, or computers, or BBQs, ... and so on.
-jimintx
Yep. Economically, it's a better idea to just yell 'OUCH!' once and be done with it. However, there's no need to go all in from the get go. Most of the upgrades can be done over time, and thus spreading out the expense. For some people it's easy to come up with $100 'here and there', rather than save up $2k for a complete DC.
I could have dropped $1500 - $2000 for a complete system, and both economically and performance wise, would have been better served. But I'm that sorta guy that can't seem to leave well enough alone. (I may start a thread about my Craftsman Tablesaw upgrade project. Which I refer to as 'lipstick on a pig')
And for me a lot of the time, it's more about 'the project' than the results. This has been fun, and that's what makes it important to me.
The Wynn is rated at .5 microns. I believe you can purchase a Donaldson that's also rated at .5 microns. The Donaldson is less expensive. But I don't recall what the total sq ft of filtering space is with the Donaldson. The Wynn I'm using is the 35BA222NANO, it has a MERV rating of 15 and 222 sq ft of filtering. It is open at both ends (but comes with a steel cap), so if I ever decide to change how I mount the system, I have some flexibility.
Disassembled the unit last night and started to pretty it up a big. Fixed the cross over support clamp mount by recessing the clamps/screws a bit deeper:
Add the two casters, wiped the extension board down with boiled Linseed oil, and re-installed it onto the HF base:
Friday's are short days for me, as I work a day shift, then go back in later for the midnight shift, so I won't get to painting the support pipe/flanges until this weekend. Hopefully, I can get this all 'back together' by Sunday or Monday.
So, I just got the DC back assembled. Resealed the impeller outlet flange, used a bit of foil tape on the metal duct work, and wheeled it into it's new 'semi-permanent' location:
Next step is to get a dedicated 20a circuit wired to it.
Got the 20amp circuit wired. Did it all myself, as the electrician wanted $100+ to merely come out and snap a breaker into my panel. I was going to get all the material and do the 'rough-in' work beforehand. So the electrician only needed to make the terminal connections. Probably 20-30 minutes of work for him.
Relatively simple job, most of the labor was in pulling the 30'+ of 12-2 Romex from the panel to the wall and securing the box and conduit to the concrete wall. Only needed to drill through one joist, as I followed existing wiring as much as I could:
Took me a total of 4 hours from start to clean-up and tool re-organization.
I will most likely 'flip' the DC around (filter to the left), easy to do as it's on six casters, when I venture into hard ducting for the shop. I still need to check (for the heck of it) amp draw at startup/running. And put some additional aluminum duct taping around the bends, as there are ever so small 'leaks' in those areas.
Got the 20amp circuit wired. Did it all myself, as the electrician wanted $100+ to merely come out and snap a breaker into my panel. I was going to get all the material and do the rough-in work beforehand. So the electrician only needed to make the terminal connections. Probably 20-30 minutes of work for him.
Relatively simple job, most of the labor was in pulling the 30 + of 12-2 Romex from the panel to the wall and securing the box and conduit to the concrete wall. Only needed to drill through one joist, as I followed existing wiring as much as I could:
Took me a total of 4 hours from start to clean-up and tool re-organization.
I will most likely flip the DC around (filter to the left), easy to do as it s on six casters, when I venture into hard ducting for the shop. I still need to check (for the heck of it) amp draw at startup/running. And put some additional aluminum duct taping around the bends, as there are ever so small leaks in those areas.
Very nice. I had an electrician install the initial 220 and additional 110 outlets and then I ran an extension to the other side of the shop myself. Now, I need to replace the short run of 1/2" emt with 3/4" as I need the extra room to add an additional 220 outlet. That should be fun… You'll definitely want to tape up those joints. When I first ran mine, I didn't tape drop the bends and performance was lackluster to say the least, so after I taped them up, it was a night and day difference. You can actually hear (and definitely feel) the difference in performance.
To seal joints in adjustable 90's, I use paint on duct sealer used on heating ducts. Paint on, let dry, add a second coat. I think it is easier than foil tape. I also seal the lengthwise snaplok joint in the pipe. Every leak subtracts from the suction. I added two strap handles to the snap ring collection bag holder. Makes it much easier to work with.
To seal joints in adjustable 90 s, I use paint on duct sealer used on heating ducts. Paint on, let dry, add a second coat. I think it is easier than foil tape. I also seal the lengthwise snaplok joint in the pipe.
- ibewjon
Really never thought about using seam sealer or the like. But I like your idea! May do that when I move up to hard ducting from the DC to the machines. I did tape the longitudinal seam on the pipes, so I'm good there. And just today, taped up all the elbows.
Here s one more mod for you: use the plastic bag to connect to a steel paint bin …
I like it! The motor is rated at 2hp, but there is much debate as to whether it is a true 2hp. Either way, as I have modified it, it does move a good amount of air. Recent check with all the joints taped, speed at 4" flex hose yielded over 5700 ft per min (beyond range of meter).
So I just got my Klein clamp on meter. Checked the amp draw and it's at a steady 12.5 amps running. Starting amp draw is quite a bit higher. I may make up a separate 'breakout' cord (12-2) to check accurately start up amperage. because the Klein line splitter multiplies X10. Which sends the meter into OL at startup.
On to the next thing in the near/distant future: Ducting.
Used some 12-2 romex I had left over, and a couple plugs from Lowe's. Hooked up the Klein meter and started the DC.
On start up it will spike to 62 amps, but rapidly drops to a steady 12.5 amps running. No worries about tripping the breaker, as the 12.5 amps is under the 80% load factor for a 20 amp breaker (16 amps). And the dedicated outlet is wired with 12-2. There's only a single outlet, so I'm not tempted to plug anything else into the circuit.
Question: Circuit breakers, from my research can handle up to 5 times their rating for those startup spikes. On a 20 amp breaker that would be 100 amps. Does this vary by circuit breaker design? Or is it a factor of time/temperature as circuit breakers are temperature/magnetic tripped? Or is this not correct? Based upon additional research, the inrush current for an induction AC motor is around 5-7 times running current. That would put my readings in line. But what prevents the circuit breaker from tripping on startup?
I know that circuit breakers are designed to protect the wiring, and that wiring selection is based upon circuit load first, then selecting the correct sized breaker (OCPD) to protect it. Any master electricians out there that can verify or dispute those numbers? I'm curious…
From the square D QO breaker trip curve, the breaker should trip in less than 1 cycle at 15 or more times rated current. That is less than 1/60 of a second. At 5x, it should trip in 6/10ths of a second. The breaker should hold rated current indefinitely. And motor breakers are sized differently, to hold inrush start up current, while the heaters in the starter protect from overload. Different brands and types of breakers have different trip curves. Square D QO is the best available, And I will use nothing else. Motor starting current has been figured as 3x running current. I have never heard 5-7 x.
So after reading a lot of reviews, I decided to go with the PSI Long Ranger III remote system. Hack Fab'd up a mounting bracket for it:
The rear of the LR III case has four openings, that I could delicately tap the plastic with a 1/4-20 thread size. There's not a lot of tugging going to happen on it, so I'm hoping it will hold up to any vibration. And yeah, the plug isn't fully inserted. Noticed that after I took the pic….
The bracket was made with some scrap 1/2" BB plywood, a 1" piece of maple salvaged from a pallet, two 3 1/2" 1/4-20 bolts, wingnuts, and washers. I drilled a 7/8" hole through the maple to clamp onto the 1/2" pipe. Through drilled for the bolts, then cut it in half at the bandsaw. I actually took three passes through the BS to get the diameter of the circle reduced enough to provide decent clamping force. The bolts were counter sunk into the 1" maple, then epoxied in place. The mount was glued to the plywood with a couple of 1" brads to hold it in place. A plastic wire tie was used to hold the excess power cord that goes to the motor.
I gave it a coat of BLO (like most of my shop jigs), and it's good to go.
I'm intrigued by this. I have that HF "2hp" motor dust collector but gonna toss the motor and use a Grizzly 2hp 220v motor my dad found. Was going to do the mount with cyclone on the bottorm on the wall design BUT since I have a single HF setup with dual bag, I can do this exact setup by just adding a Dust Deputy, filter, and swapping in my Grizzly motor.
What's the CFM you're pulling? Is that the 5" inlet or 6" inlet dust deputy? I have a 16" 5hp powermatic planer and 5hp sawstop. All need 800cfm for optimal chip removal.
I was reading that getting too large cyclone it work work if the HP on the dust blower isnt adequate.
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