LumberJocks

Type of sprayer that sprays like can lacquer?

  • Advertise with us

« back to Finishing forum

Forum topic by FMcarves posted 02-27-2019 01:33 PM 668 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View FMcarves's profile

FMcarves

7 posts in 234 days


02-27-2019 01:33 PM

I’m brand new to this forum so first off hi to all.
I make small carvings out of mostly oily exotics and have been using deft gloss canned lacquer for years with a sealer, otherwise nitro won’t cure right.
I’m trying to move to water based, either lacquer or poly. I tried using an airbrush as I’ve read on another forum, with the same setup they used and it throws out very large dots of thinned water based lacquer or water based wipe on poly.
I’ve been looking at touch up hvlp guns with a compressor, and those cheap Wagner type guns. Do any of those produce a nice fine mist like spray as can lacquer does? Or maybe an airbrush with a fan pattern cap?
We don’t want to spend a lot of money to test stuff, so any help from you folks will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.


20 replies so far

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

2014 posts in 672 days


#1 posted 02-27-2019 02:31 PM

I used the Preval sprayers a few years ago, and from I remember,
it applied liquids just like the standard aerosol paints.
for the price, it may be worth the while to try it.
Preval

-- I am a painter. That's what I do. I paint things --

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1099 days


#2 posted 02-27-2019 03:14 PM

Not all airbrushes are created equal. Cheap ones do tend to spit out blobs. I have a Paasche VL double action that is flawless.

If you have a compressor, even a small one, the Critter is economical and sprays nicely. It’s not adjustable for the fan shape and sprays a cone only. One feature is that it uses mason jars, so you can switch between different finishes just by running some solvent through it and screwing on a jar with the finish. Even little pancake compressors have enough CFM to use it.

One tip if you decide to try one, attach a regulator at the gun. It’s touchy to adjust and having a local regulator makes it easier to get tuned in. I wrote about it in post #7 in this thread: https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/275689

-- There are 10 types of people—those who understand binary, and those who don’t

View gwilki's profile

gwilki

322 posts in 1983 days


#3 posted 02-27-2019 03:48 PM

What airbrush are you using? I have a Paasche and I use it for water-based products pretty much exclusively. I have no issues with spray pattern at all – certainly no “dots”. It sounds like you may have too little air and too much product.

-- Grant Wilkinson, Ottawa ON

View FMcarves's profile

FMcarves

7 posts in 234 days


#4 posted 02-27-2019 05:43 PM

I’m using a master airbrush e91 similar to a badger 350. I’ll try using another airbrush that came with the kit. Now what I’m trying to spray is water based lacquer such as enduro or target coatings make. I know they are too thick for smaller nozzles so I tride using the .8mm one. I tried water based wipe on poly since it’s a little thinner with bad results.
I looked at the preval vfan and paasche with a fan cap, will these spray lacquer straight out of the can or does it need to be thinned, can it be thinned without loosing cross linking?
Thanks

View Jokker78's profile

Jokker78

148 posts in 2207 days


#5 posted 02-27-2019 05:44 PM

I spray deft with a cheap harbor freight gun. The purple one. I’ve put a few gallons of different things though it also. I’ve always been happy with my finish. I do thin what I spray out of it.

-- Measure once, cut , measure again, cut and damn its still to short

View FMcarves's profile

FMcarves

7 posts in 234 days


#6 posted 02-27-2019 08:29 PM

Yeah I’ve been thinking of a small hvlp gun but I’m trying to get away from nitro because of the smell. I don’t know if water based lacquer can be thinned. I have some aquacoat lacquer that the company man says can be thinned but it doesn’t seem to be hard enough. I wanna try the enduro or target coatings lacquer hoping they cure fast and are good and durable.
Does the harbor freight gun atomize good? I was looking at a hvlp touch up gun with a small compressor and 1.4 nozzle, wonder if this combo would work, do the small guns atomize good?
Thanks

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1099 days


#7 posted 02-27-2019 08:38 PM

The Harbor Freight gun is excellent for the money. However, you can’t get by with a small compressor since you’d be spending most of your time waiting for it to catch up. They advertise 6 CFM at 40 PSI.

Also, water based lacquer is not real lacquer, and won’t give you the look you’re accustomed to with NC. No waterborne finish is going to give you the look of a solvent finish. Still, give it a try. Maybe you’ll be OK with the look. You can thin it with water.

-- There are 10 types of people—those who understand binary, and those who don’t

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1892 posts in 2004 days


#8 posted 02-27-2019 09:44 PM

Welcome!

HVLP gun does not spray like rattle can. Hard to explain all differences, but HVLP is capable of putting down a slightly heavier coat (using thicker finish) than normal atomizing spray gun? HVLP done incorrectly, can create inferior atomization and coverage. Your comments on large dots with air brush sound like common complaints from HVLP, and could mean the finish is too thick, or you need to use different solvent for thinning. That or you are using a cheap air brush?

I use this cheap HF detail gun on most all my small projects, especially when my Iwata air bush(es) are just too slow. Has all same idiosyncrasies as spray can. Use it all time for dye stains (even on large projects for better control), with GF Enduro and HP on occasional drawer box, and even Arm-R-Seal thinned 20%. This HF detail gun works really well on small compressor. Used to use it with a tiny porter cable pancake compressor that came with my nail guns, until I upgraded to a 6cfm model to keep my HVLP guns feed properly on larger projects.

Standard spray gun (or airbrush) require finish to be thinner than HVLP gun can tolerate. For all them, you will have learn trick(s) of which compatible fast/slow solvents to use based on temp/humidity. Even with WB finishes, tend to use alcohol/acetone when I need faster evaporation help with atomization; which means more solvent odor that you might expect with ‘safe’ WB coating.

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View SMP's profile

SMP

1392 posts in 415 days


#9 posted 02-27-2019 10:41 PM



I used the Preval sprayers a few years ago, and from I remember,
it applied liquids just like the standard aerosol paints.
for the price, it may be worth the while to try it.
Preval

- John Smith

Those work great for small one off projects once you get the product thinned right. A litle tricky for me to thin in that small a container. They are pretty expensive for regular use though.

View FMcarves's profile

FMcarves

7 posts in 234 days


#10 posted 02-28-2019 06:10 AM

Thanks captainklutz and all, really useful info, I’ll try thinned lacquer with all 3 airbrushes that came with the kit and see if it has a chance at working, then I’ll look into a fan air cap airbrush. Preval makes an airbrush version that works off of a 1/6 hp compressor according to the faqs on their website, I have a 1/5 hp so that should handle it.
If the airbrush idea doesn’t pan out, I’ll get a smallish air compressor and the gun captainklutz suggested. They have these super quiet air compressors on the Home Depot website and they are pretty affordable.
I’ll try the airbrush idea this weekend and keep you posted.
One more question, minwax water based wipe on poly, can it be thinned? I know on the bottle it says don’t, but all the other instructions are exact copies of the oil based stuff and don’t work with water based, try rubbing it into the wood and you get a gummy rag.
Thanks

View gtrgeo's profile

gtrgeo

53 posts in 940 days


#11 posted 02-28-2019 06:32 AM

I have had good luck using the cheap purple Harbor Freight HVLP gun and the General Finishes water based poly. I was able to acheive a finish I believe comparable to a spray can. I think these sprayers are actually considered conversion guns so they don’t really seem to lay down material the same as a true HVLP. I do have a 30gal compressor and am not sure how it would do with a smaller unit.

As mentioned by others you will not get the same look with a water based poly as they tend to be more crystal clear rather than the amber tone of a solvent based finish. If you like that look I have found the Enduro water based urethane to be very good to get the look of an oil finish with the ease of water based cleanup. However, I have never tried to spray the stuff. I have thinned it with some distilled water to make it lay a little smoother when using a brush.

George

View PeteStaehling's profile

PeteStaehling

98 posts in 1629 days


#12 posted 02-28-2019 12:53 PM

The purple HF is pretty nice. I use it with the CALIFORNIA AIR TOOLS 10020C (rated 6.40 CFM @ 40 PSI.). It is pretty easy to over run this compressor with this gun. It works okay on small stuff, but I often have to pause and wait for the compressor to catch up if I use it for anything of any size.

How small are your carvings? The HF gun may be a bit big is they are really small. For tiny stuff an airbrush may make more sense. I have scant experience with little airbrushes so I won’t recommend a specific one.

View FMcarves's profile

FMcarves

7 posts in 234 days


#13 posted 02-28-2019 04:53 PM

Thanks guys, I no now the water based lacquer will have a different look than nitro but this might be a better thing in my case. Nitro, or the deft kind anyways, seems to mute the figure of some woods such as ziricote. The water based I tried brushing on pops the figure nicely.
I make wood pendants so I think you might be right that hvlp might be overkill, most are around 1.75”. I’m kinda leaning towards an airbrush.
Now what do you guys recommend for nozzle size for the airbrush and thinning ratio?
Thanks again, glad I found this forum!

View gtrgeo's profile

gtrgeo

53 posts in 940 days


#14 posted 02-28-2019 05:29 PM

I would agree that an airbrush is probably going to be your best choice for the size of your work. I have and prefer the Paasche airbrushes. You can pick up a single action Model H kit for $50-60 and it will contain a few tips to help you find the right combination. You really should not need a double action airbrush as you are only spraying finish. The double action lets you control the material flow for line width and shading applications.

Thinning is going to be limited by your finish. From what I have seen most manufacturers suggest thinning no more than 10%. Use distilled water to prevent any odd reactions from any minerals that may be in your tap water.

George

View Rich's profile

Rich

5001 posts in 1099 days


#15 posted 02-28-2019 05:44 PM


Now what do you guys recommend for nozzle size for the airbrush and thinning ratio?

- FMcarves

You’ll have to experiment. If you work with the same commercial product all the time, you should be able to come up with a thinning formula through trial and error.

My Paasche VL came with three tips, .55mm, .73mm and 1.06mm. I spray mostly water based dyes and use the middle one. For a topcoat I’d go with the largest and then thin it until I get a good pattern.

-- There are 10 types of people—those who understand binary, and those who don’t

showing 1 through 15 of 20 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com