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Am I ready for glueup?

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2K views 23 replies 14 participants last post by  WoodNube 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm new to wordworking, and right now, I essentially don't have a workbench.

So I'm building a sort of mini-workbench inspired, in large part, by this video.



I've cut down 2Ă—4's to about 30" long, and trimmed edges off the flat sides to help clean them up. The wood is cheap 2Ă—4 pine. I will be installing a Irwin 6 1/2" vise (roughly $20), which is the most expensive piece. I don't expect this to be fancy, but it should be a big improvement over the "nothing" I have now.

I laid out the pieces, tried turning them different directions and such to keep the best part of the wood on the top, etc. It's super cheap wood, so I can't expect perfection. I think this will give me something solid to work on, a small front vise, and edges I can use to clamp things down with bar clamps. It's big enough to be pretty solid and heavy, but small and light enough I can move it into the house if needed. Space in the garage is very limited, though I expect to have more later and build a full size workbench. In part, this mini-workbench is to get a useful tool, and in part, it's so I have more experience when I build a full size bench later.

So with everything laid out, but without gluing, I clamped everything down. 30" x 15.5" top, and essentially a 3.5" (2Ă—4 size) height, though I expect to do a fair amount of sanding/planing to smooth out the top (and likely the bottom.)

But I don't have a jointer, and I don't have a planer. Clamped down tight, I can still see some "daylight cracks" through some spots. Overall, it looks pretty good, but if I set it on end and look through, I can see light making it through in several spots. None look huge, but I'm sure if it was right, I wouldn't see that.

I'm not sure if I should go ahead with glue-up and just let the glue fill those small gaps, or if those gaps mean that it's just going to fall apart as soon as I take the clamps off.

If this is a "no, you can't glue it, you have to fix it right first" thing, then I don't know what my next step is.

Advice? Suggestions?
 
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#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
How many and what kind of clamps are you using? I wouldn't try to glue it up all at once. Do 1/2 at a time., then glue the halves together. Also make yourself some cauls to keep it in alignment during glue up. Once you use glue the pieces will want to slip all over the place and not stay in alignment. Keeping them aligned will save you a lot of work later when when you go to level the top.
 
#4 ·
Welcome to Ljs
you may want to go a little wider than 15" to make your bench a little more functional say 20-24".
Brian and Bondo have good points, do you have a table saw? if you do try just barely taking some wood off the sides of the boards that have gaps, keep checking after light cuts and see if you can eliminate the gaps, after that follow Bondo's advice about gluing half or even a third at a time at a time and using cauls. If you don't know what cauls are just google wood cauls for woodworking.
 
#5 ·
Too bad you are in Texas, i would give you that vise if in socal. Bought it for a mini bench top bench but have too many projects going on and don't see myself making it in the next couple years. I agree on a pic so we can offer more advice. Good luck!
 
#7 ·
I appreciate the advice. I guess I can't put it together as is.

I am not sure a picture will help, but will post below. If I get fairly close and line up just right, I can show you one gap where light can get through, but the gaps are small enough that if you're lined up to see one, you can't see any of the others. And if you are not exactly lined up, you can't see any of them at all. I thought I was fine when I had it lying on the table, it was only after I set it up on-end that I could see this problem at all.

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I have a hand plane, just no knowledge of how to use it, how to figure out what to plane off, and how much, to get everything to match up.

I was planning to use some 2Ă—4's at cauls when I get to the glue-up. I plan to buy 2 more clamps in addition to what you see here, and I have some smaller clamps that will work for holding the cauls. I have one more 2Ă—4 the same size as in the picks that will be added after a bit of modification. It will be the front piece of the bench, with a bit of it trimmed out to let it also act as the vise jaws so that those jaws are essentially connected to the rest of the bench and run smooth the entire length of the bench. (As opposed to many I see where the vise just sticks out front and doesn't line up with the bench.) Eventually, there will also be some short legs under this main bench piece.

I also realized that when I said the wood was cheap and the vise was the most expensive part, that's not technically true. The clamps and the table saw are the expensive part. :)

For now, I'm going to put it on hold and think about it. I'd love to have it done, but I think I need some "mull it over" time. I looked around to see if I could find someplace in Dallas that will rent a thickness planer, but no luck with that.
 

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#8 ·
your boards are warped. id go through them all and see if you can stack them with the jacked up boards to the outside. you could( its a lot of work) rip them all down to 1/4" then glue them back together. use 2 4Ă—4's as cauls and clamp to them. Reason I say use 4Ă—4's is because they are way less likely to twist or warp. just a suggestion. I don't know what tools you have but there are a lot of ways to fix a warp you just have to search. id suggest watching the wood whisperer videos. he has a video how to level a table top with a router.
if you have a straight edge or a 4 ft level will work you can hand plane your 2Ă—4's flat. with out a jointer or planer your options are limited
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
One problem I see is that you are clamping all on one side try alternating your clamps on both sides. I also think that those clamps are pretty light duty clamps for what you are trying to do. Pipe clamps or parallel jaw clamps would be more in line with the job at hand. I mentioned this before, but try clamping half of the boards at a time and see if your clamps can close some of the gaps a little better.
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
Another thought,

As you're new to the hobby and maybe a bit short for some of the tools to get the job done the way you're picturing it. Maybe reconsider the top? Use the stock you've got right now to build a sturdy base and then use sheet goods for the top surface. A 4' x 8' x 3/4" sheet of MDF should be less than $25 at the box store, cut it in half and use two pieces for your top you'll have a very strong flat work surface to get your self started with. Most folks go with the thick glue up top for the mass needed with chisel and plane work.

It's just another thought, after 20 years of this, I do intend to "One Day" build my dream work bench but until then, a sturdy flat horizontal surface has been doing the job very well.

Welcome to LJ's
 
#12 ·
Totally out of left field, but a worktable. bench, whatever you wanna call it needs to support up to a few hundred pounds, be flat, and most importantly have some way to clamp on it. A 4 to 6" ledge across the front will allow clamps to be used. Take those 2Ă—4's and build a frame for a top 24" wide, by XXX long, depending on space or need.

Make the top out of a piece of plywood cut in two down the middle.

Help us help you by listing the tools you have available.
 
#13 ·
Agree with above. I think youtube/Sellers/Schwarz have beginners brainwashed into thinking they have to do these glued up bench tops or they can't do woodworking. Cut and stack plywood for the top, glue solid wood edging around the sides. Call it done. Down the road you can build something else. You don't need an 800 lb monstrosity with 3" thick top to do woodworking. If the bench moves, screw it to the floor or wall.
 
#14 ·
+1 on the plywood top.

That said, you've got a bowed board in the middle. Move it to the edge you should be able to pull it inn
If you use a handplane to flatten it, make sure all the grain is running the same direction.
 
#16 ·
I do appreciate all the advice. Thank you.

I'm reading it a lot faster than I'm replying, and I'm looking at my project and trying to think things through.

I am a bit amused at the "dream work bench" type comments. I certainly don't think that's what I was aiming for. It's a miniature thing, not a full size work bench, with a $20 vise, made out of cheap wood. Even if it worked out exactly like I planned, it would still be very basic, nothing special.

And at least in my mind, when I started, this would be incredibly simple. Cut 2Ă—4's, glue and clamp, plus a small amount of extra work for the vise, and some very basic planing/sanding to flatten out the top. Maybe not quite that easy, but darn close. Or so I thought.

No fancy joinery, no fancy hardwood. But it would have a basic vise, that I don't have now. It would give me something to clamp to, and a solid reasonably flat work surface that could be stored without using a lot of space, and used in the garage or in the house. I hadn't expected this to be difficult at all.

I did start with the cheapest 2Ă—4's at the store, and that is probably at least part of the problem.

One of the comments above was that I have a twisted/bowed board or two, so I was looking and I think that does explain at least part of the issue. I can see two boards that have issues on both sides of them, clearly the two that are causing me the most problems. And those two, based on the color difference with the others, I think were part of the same original 2Ă—4. (each original 2Ă—4 was cut down to 3 of the ones I'm using.) Right now, I'm leaning towards going and buying 2 more 2Ă—4's, higher quality than I got last time, cut them down the same way I did these before, and then start swapping out boards, trying to get rid of the ones with the worst problems for better ones.

Hopefully, that gets rid of the worst issues. Then clamp again, look for similar places where things just don't line up right, and try to hand-plane those boards. I'm guessing the places where those boards fit tight need to be planed down, so I pencil-mark those spots, plane whatever feels right (and use a straight-edge to check) and then try clamping again. Repeat as needed. And when ready to do the actual glue-up, smaller numbers at a time as suggested above.

That should get me close, I think. And if after all of that, I still can't get it to work, then I just glue it up as best I can, then take a sheet of plywood (or MDF) and lay over the top, glue and screw that down (countersunk screw holes) and go from there.

I'd probably just jump straight to the plywood top version except for 2 things.

One, I'm trying to learn woodworking, and I think I have to learn how to do this, not just jump to "don't bother, just use plywood". Woodknack said "Never half ass it", and I feel like going with the plywood would qualify with that. I may get a work surface faster, but I won't learn as much. I'd like to at least try to figure this out before I give up on it.

And two, I do want the vice connected, and had planned to make the 2Ă—4 on that side of the bench part of the jaw, so it's flush the whole way, and I can't quite visualize how to do that if I have a plywood top. Maybe if it comes to that, I just move the vise out with a shorter jaw and it won't be flush with the near edge of the rest of the bench.

Someone asked about what tools I have. Table saw, jigsaw, circular saw, orbital sander, 3" belt sander, cordless drill, trim router (that I have not used so far, just got it.) I don't yet have it, but soon will buy a Bosch router with both a fixed base and plunge base. I have a basic hand plane (Harbor Freight #33) but very little experience with how to use it. Several different squares, from a rafter angle square on the small size, a 2'x3' carpenters square on the large size. A basic hand miter saw with one of those plastic miter boxes. A cheap set of wood chisels. Misc stuff like tape measures, levels, hammers, hand saws, etc. Clamps. Router bits, drill bits, etc.

No drill press, no band saw, no thickness planer, no jointer, no sliding miter saw with LED's and lasers and bubble machines. No router table, though I expect to try making one once I have a full sized router. No bench grinder. Very, very limited space, though I expect to slowly gain more by making my GF move junk out of the garage. (Throw it away, or store it in the house, as long as I get some more room. She says she's working on it, and I've seen some progress.)

For a workbench, I have a Harbor Freight storage chest with a wood top. It doesn't have any good place to clamp anything. And I have a folding table, again, no good way to clamp anything and it wiggles around like crazy.

The bench I'm making now will be a step up, and even it will need something else to work as support, since it'll only be around 9" or 10" high.

Until I have more space, I'm planning to rig up 2 homemade sawhorses and a 2Ă—4/plywood thing to go on top of it. This workbench can be used on top of that, and so can a small router table, etc. I'll clamp what I need (like a router table or this mini-bench) to the top to work, then put them away later, and I can break the whole thing down for storage when I have to. Stack the sawhorses, the tabletop leans up against whatever, and the main part of the garage is ready for the GF's car again. Later, when I have more space, maybe I won't need to break it all down, but I suspect I'll always keep it around, and build a more permanent bench. I'm planning on the height of this sawhorse & Top bench to be barely below the height of my table saw so I can turn it into a outfeed table later, stored most of the time, easy to set up when I need it. The table saw itself is a kobalt portable saw so I can move it to a corner and not take up much space when it's not in use. (Now priced at $299, but I got it for $170 in December.)

And the mini-bench will be able to come inside if I want to tinker while watching TV (my "coffee table" will support it just fine, as will kitchen counter) or do glueups inside instead of in the garage when the weather is bad, stuff like that.

It's okay that you guys are snickering and thinking "Such a nube, no clue". I get it, and you are 100% correct. My background isn't anything similar to this. It's just a hobby, and so far, it hasn't convinced me to give up, so I'll just keep plugging away at it. I'm mostly retired, just trying to learn a bit about something I've never known much about.

So far, I've made a few shelves for the laundry room, I've patched up a couple of drawers in the kitchen that were starting to fall apart, I made a "thing" that is about 75% of a box designed to hold my computer monitor higher and allow my keyboard to slide under when I want more desk space. And some small stuff in the shop, like push sticks and something to help me store wood. I've bought MDF and a few other things to make a table saw sled, but haven't made it. It's all very minor stuff, and for the most part, the things I expect to make in the future, I think are fairly simple. I'm sure I'll come up with more lofty goals as my skills increase.

I'm learning from Youtube and from reading here, mostly. I don't have any friends who are into this kind of thing.

I don't mind you laughing at me, as long as you keep giving me advice. :)
 
#17 ·
No snickering from me. At some point we were all "Noobs" I think you are just seeing folks trying to save you from yourself, and not repeat a lot of mistakes we all made. Mine was 50+ years ago, and Dad and my Uncle did some snickering, but then would point out what was likely to happen. After I ignored them several times and saw they actually were just "teaching me" I became a better student.

The most salient point made here is that The Schwarz, Sellers, and so many more make it look like if your bench doesn't have a French name, you ain't squat. I like to say there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, meaning there are always a few correct ways to do most anything in woodworking.

My last tip would be, do NOT put sheet goods with no, or very little potential for movement securely (IE: glued, or securely screwed) on top of solid wood with a large potential for movement. It doesn't end well.
 
#18 ·
I dunno about Schwarz, Sellers, etc. I've watched lots of videos, most I couldn't tell you who they are. I still feel like the mini-bench I'm working on is very basic.

Weather turned cold, and I suspect I'm doing essentially nothing on this for the next week or two other than thinking about it. Maybe at some point I'll stop to pick up more 2Ă—4's when I'm out of the house anyway, but unless I run out of food, that may not happen for awhile.

I don't think I understand that last bit, about not putting sheet goods on top. Sounds like you are saying not to add a plywood later to the top. I'd have thought that would make the whole thing more stable, not less.

Maybe I should just double-layer some 3/4 inch plywood and go with that. Can make the same type of little legs I had planned before. I don't think I can attach the vice in that case, screwing a vice into the edges of plywood seems like sure failure.

Everyone seems to think that I'm trying to make it too fancy. So start me over. How do you guys recommend I make it? I'm not at all worried about it being pretty, just functional.
 
#19 ·
In the video, the guy was making a small bench to sit on top of a bench (or table I guess). If that is what you are doing, I would build a rectangle frame out of 2Ă—4s, doubling them up, effectively creating a 4Ă—4 frame, and then screw 3/4 ply to it cut to the outside of the frame dimension. This will allow you to attach the vise to the 2Ă—4 instead of the plywood. Mount it to the left if you are right handed and to the right if you are left handed. For legs, use 2Ă—4s again cut to the height you desire. You can shore them up underneath with more 2Ă—4s cut to the inside measurements of the top. That is for a table on table kind of thing. If you want to be able to sit it on a pair of sawhorses and remove it to store away, you need to make sure the width is the same as the length of the sawhorses, that way you can drop the top frame on the sawhorses (they will be your legs). This will add some stability because the top will be restricted by the sawhorses as it nestles into the inside of the top frame. The sawhorses should be built tall enough so that you have a good height when the top is in place. In my case it would be 36-37 inches, and then another 3/4 when the top is on. If the sawhorses take up too much room you can build a couple of straight leg assemblies that bold on to your top with carriage bolts, making is able to be disassembled when you want to store it out of the way. I started very simply myself, so I am not smirking either. I suspect most of the folks here are the same way and we remember where we came from. Simple is good and necessity is the mother of invention, as the saying goes. For me it is all about the journey most of the time, and it is a good journey to be on. Keep up the good work
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
Welcome to Lumberjocks. I agree with some of the points made above. The point of a thick top like you are trying to make is to have some mass so that you can pound on it or with a vise on the end so that you can clamp something to it and work on it without it moving. For a portable bench top setup to be effective you have to be able to clamp it down to something massive enough that it won't move when you apply force while sawing, using a hand plane or a chisel for example. A coffee table probably won't cut it and you may damage your table in the process. A Workmate portable work bench might be a better short term option at least.

Since your goal is to make something and also learn in the process and if you still want to proceed with this, here is my advice. Make yourself a jointing sled for your table saw. Something like this. You should be able to find other examples that do not require the toggle clamps. First, I would cull out any boards that are also twisted as those will just make the whole process much more difficult. Use the sled to cut off one side of each board. Your table saw will probably not be able to cut the full height of 3.5" plus the height of the sled, so I would instead rip the 2Ă—4s in half using the sled and just make a thinner top. It will still be plenty thick for a portable bench top. Once you have a nice straight edge on each board, cut off the other edge, sliding the jointed edge against the fence of the table saw. If you find that the other dimension is also warped, you may have to rotate each 2Ă—2 90 degrees and joint the other edges with the sled, again cutting of the 4th edge by sliding the jointed edge along the fence. This jointing process has the added benefit of cutting off the rounded corners making it possible to get a mostly flat top once you glue them up. Note that you may find that after ripping them in half, that they warp again, This is common, especially with boards that have already warped. If you find that you still cannot bring the joints together after they "re-warp". Try clamping and gluing 2 or 3 at a time and then adding one on each side, until you get them all glued up If necessary, you can drive some long screws in to help bring them together. Just make sure that the screw heads are countersunk so that do not interfere with the glue joints. Screws may also allow you to remove the clamps and add the next pair of boards without having to wait for the glue to completely dry. As you proceed, you may have to use cauls or at least clamps on the ends to keep the surface aligned.

Good luck.
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Nobody is snickering at you and calling you a noob but instead trying to give you ideas on how to do things a bit differently to give you what you are asking for in the least amount of time. As far as going with a plywood top, that is actually one of the best and cheapest options for you to try. I too had a very small shed when I decided to get back into woodworking in 2007/2008 and didn't have a lot of room to do much. So I built the workbench you see in the first picture. There were a lot of things I didn't like about it afterwards but it was very sturdy, made entirely from 2Ă—4s and plywood and worked great.

I've since moved on from that house and am sharing a large pole-barn with a buddy of mine that we do our woodworking and maintain our cars/motorcycles in. I'm now building the workbench you see in the second picture that is a lot more detailed but still is made out of 2Ă—4s and will have a MDF top.

Build easy for now and work your way up to more as you get the tools, space, and experience

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#22 ·
I was making 2 separate points. First is that woodworking is joinery and don't halfass it means exactly that: learn appropriate joinery for the situation, use dry wood (for most situations), flatten the face of material, true the edges, plane with the grain to avoid tearout, account for wood movement, make sure tenons seat all the way and are snug, etc. Never give in to frustration. If you can see light between boards, they are not glue ready (there are exceptions where a gap is done intentionally but you don't need to worry about that when starting out). I've seen plenty of really nice lumber wasted on furniture that had sloppy joinery, gaps between boards, or poor design. Fancy wood doesn't make nice woodwork; clean, quality joinery makes nice woodwork.
*note there are exceptions to everything, don't worry about the exceptions until you master the basics.

Second point, don't feel like you need a built up workbench top. They are fairly complicated even from 2Ă—4 lumber, maybe even more so from 2Ă—4s. So cut and stacking plywood is not halfassing IMO. Every project will teach you something. If the 2Ă—4 workbench is what you want then go for it but I think that there is a lot of unnecessary pressure on beginners to build these style workbenches.
 
#23 ·
My current and first work bench I built. I went to menards went into the cut off pile of 1Ă—10 found 15 of them.that were 24 inches long minimum. Built a frame out of doubled up 2Ă—4 and then biscuit jointed the 1Ă—10's together and screwed them down. It has a shelf below of 3/4 ply.
To put a vice on it and bench dogs now all I have to do is flush cut the front lip screw 2Ă—4 with 4degree dados and it's as good as anyone would honestly need. I think total cost for it was 50 bucks. My point is work with what you got make what you can. I have had this bench for 8 years now and it's a tank.if I was worried about the top I could put a sheet of MDF on it and replace as needed.
You honestly dont need a big fancy bench. And when the time comes you do need or want one build it when you have the knowledge and the tools. I only had a chop saw a circular saw and a impact when I built mine
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
I haven't completely given up on that mini-bench idea. But I had always expected to build a bigger bench that could be used for the mini bench to sit on, or as an outfeed table for the table saw, or a router table to sit on, a tabletop drill press, etc. And having that bench will make it easier to work on the mini-bench, try to use a hand-plane to get them right, etc.

And the weather got nice again.

Not finished, but the basic frame is there, it's solid. Will add more framework for a lower shelf. I have a 2' x 4' sheet of 3/4" plywood for the top, and will have some overhang all around so clamps can be used. The lower shelf will be 1/4" or 1/2". Under the lower shelf (and lower frame) I will have about 7.5" clearance from the floor, and since I'm so short on space, I plan to get some clear plastic storage boxes that will slide right under the bench. The height is barely under the height of my table saw.

I know I didn't get all the corners exactly square, and it has some wobble. But my garage floor isn't flat so I would have gotten some wobble regardless, and I expect to just shim it up. I've seen some ways to make leveling feet and may do that at some point, but will use shims for now.

Should I put a finish on it? Linseed oil? Polyurethane? I'm not particularly worried about "pretty", but if it will help it last, I'm willing to put in extra effort. And I need to learn about finishing anyway.

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