LumberJocks

My project turned into a taco. Would appreciate some feedback. Pics included

  • Advertise with us

« back to Wood & Lumber forum

Forum topic by tripleduece249 posted 02-03-2019 02:50 AM 898 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View tripleduece249's profile

tripleduece249

4 posts in 81 days


02-03-2019 02:50 AM

Hello all. I’m new here and relatively new to woodworking. I’m hoping someone can give me some answers and possibly a fix for my situation. These are going to be lazy susans so they really need to be flat for hardware install and function.

The first picture shows wood grain direction, species of wood, thickness, how many panels were glued up, and the shape of the warp in relation to the grain. The second and third pics show one has a concave cup and the other a convex. The Chechen warped the least – almost not even noticeable. The cupping happened after I poured the third coat of EpoxAcast 690, which covered all the encased pieces. That was done on January 2nd and I know they were flat before the pour since I layed a level on them in multiple axis. I haven’t been able to work on them since then but yesterday (Feb 1) I stacked them and they were all wonky.

What do you think happened to make them all warp like that? My thoughts are it has something to do with the epoxy and the boards being flat sawn. I milled them back in late December and did the glue up the following day. It seems weird that one of them cupped in the opposite direction as the others.

My plan was to do a final coat of epoxy to coat all surfaces.

I did order “Understanding Wood” but would like to finish these sooner than later as they were supposed to be Christmas gifts. I’ve been researching wood movement since this happened and have seen techniques for fixing cupped boards. I’m not sure these techniques are applicable to my situation but would a cupped board that is fixed with heat or moisture just go back to being cupped eventually?

Thanks for reading,

Dave


11 replies so far

View DMiller's profile

DMiller

490 posts in 805 days


#1 posted 02-03-2019 03:15 AM

As for why, I don’t know. If it was mine though, I would try taking some 1/8 – 1/4 inch plywood or wood in general and glue it to the bottom of each to try to gain your level again. It might even add a creative touch if you used contrasting wood. As for your designs, they look great! Hope this is of some help!
-Dale M.

-- Dale Miller Modesto, CA "I can do all things through Christ, which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13. "Woodworking minus patience equals firewood."

View WDHLT15's profile

WDHLT15

1807 posts in 2808 days


#2 posted 02-03-2019 12:59 PM

The wood was not dry and it shrank.

-- Danny Located in Perry, GA. Forester. Wood-Mizer LT40HD35 Sawmill. Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln. hamsleyhardwood.com

View mahdee's profile

mahdee

4213 posts in 2100 days


#3 posted 02-03-2019 02:49 PM

So, they all cupped towards where the epoxy was poured. The epoxy prevented the surface from “breathing” while the other side could which caused the cupping. My only suggestion would be to put the bottom side up and expose it to some heat (sun, fan in a low humidity area, hair dryer, tec.) and immediately spray it with polyurethane or something equivalent. Maybe next time use a scap and spray the bottom first and then do the epoxy to see if you get a better result. The trays look beautiful.

-- earthartandfoods.com

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1140 posts in 1893 days


#4 posted 02-03-2019 03:16 PM

You really need to have the wood dried and climatized to the environment that it’s going to be in and let the wood turn and twist. Then you can see how it may need to be flattened before glue up. And all sides and ends do need to be sealed on the finished product.

View BlueRidgeDog's profile

BlueRidgeDog

479 posts in 112 days


#5 posted 02-03-2019 03:18 PM

I can’t tell from the images, but if you only put epoxy on one side, you created the foundation for the arc. The unfinished side can absorb moisture and expand, the finished side can not, and remains the same. They should flatten if you can dry out the back and then finish it to seal it. In the future seal front and back before you pour the epoxy.

View Cincinnati2929's profile

Cincinnati2929

9 posts in 240 days


#6 posted 02-03-2019 03:51 PM

I am not a professional woodworker. But I’ve done enough that I offer my advise on how I’d approach this issue. This is a moisture issue. Since it was not gradual over time, but seems to have been caused by your finish or at least your technique, that is where I would look for the solution to correcting it.

I could not determine if you finished all sides? I would likely start with a seal coat on each side first. This is why I finish sides of wood that do not show. Same as laminating. If I veneer exotics over a plywood substrate, I veneer a similar non-exotic on the back. It helps to keep everything flat. I learned this from David Marks.q

You are using a cross section of a tree. So your grain Is constantly changing direction, it looks like you have pith, heartwood, sapwood, cambian, and bark in there. Obviously, The smaller the piece, the less it shrinks/expands. But This makes it mandatory to be aware of your moisture content. If the parts you bring together are of varying moisture content, you have an inherent problem that will certainly manifest. If you’re going to make these on a regular basis, I recommend studying what the live edge bowl makers do. It’s for situations like this that I am considering purchasing a moisture meter.

View Snipes's profile

Snipes

394 posts in 2577 days


#7 posted 02-03-2019 06:16 PM

^^what?

-- if it is to be it is up to me

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5389 posts in 3576 days


#8 posted 02-03-2019 06:54 PM

Possibly the wood will flatten once the lazy susan hardware has been installed and screwed down tight. I don’t know how flexible the epoxy is. If it is not, it may crack when trying to flatten.

View tripleduece249's profile

tripleduece249

4 posts in 81 days


#9 posted 02-03-2019 07:28 PM



So, they all cupped towards where the epoxy was poured. The epoxy prevented the surface from “breathing” while the other side could which caused the cupping. My only suggestion would be to put the bottom side up and expose it to some heat (sun, fan in a low humidity area, hair dryer, tec.) and immediately spray it with polyurethane or something equivalent. Maybe next time use a scap and spray the bottom first and then do the epoxy to see if you get a better result. The trays look beautiful.

- mahdee

Two with epoxy cupped down towards the bottom and 1 with epoxy cupped upwards. I’m going to try you what you suggested with heat on the convex surface, see if they move, and carry on with the project either way. My plan is to flood all surfaces with epoxy so I wasn’t sure how sealing it before applying epoxy would work in terms of adherence etc… I’ll have to look into it. I probably should have done a thin coat of epoxy over all surfaces in the first place, then built up the coats on the recessed part.

View tripleduece249's profile

tripleduece249

4 posts in 81 days


#10 posted 02-03-2019 07:34 PM


I could not determine if you finished all sides? I would likely start with a seal coat on each side first. This is why I finish sides of wood that do not show. Same as laminating. If I veneer exotics over a plywood substrate, I veneer a similar non-exotic on the back. It helps to keep everything flat. I learned this from David Marks.q

I did not finish all sides first. This is probably the biggest issue I think.

You are using a cross section of a tree. So your grain Is constantly changing direction, it looks like you have pith, heartwood, sapwood, cambian, and bark in there. Obviously, The smaller the piece, the less it shrinks/expands. But This makes it mandatory to be aware of your moisture content. If the parts you bring together are of varying moisture content, you have an inherent problem that will certainly manifest. If you’re going to make these on a regular basis, I recommend studying what the live edge bowl makers do. It’s for situations like this that I am considering purchasing a moisture meter.

- Cincinnati2929

These are flat sawn boards glued up and the grain varies quiet a bit from one side to the other, which I’m sure didn’t help. I’m glad I didn’t decide to do all 4 at the dame time. The Chechen one is for me so it wasn’t priority. It will be interesting to see what happens when I get around to finishing it, knowing what I know now.

View tripleduece249's profile

tripleduece249

4 posts in 81 days


#11 posted 02-03-2019 07:36 PM



I can t tell from the images, but if you only put epoxy on one side, you created the foundation for the arc. The unfinished side can absorb moisture and expand, the finished side can not, and remains the same. They should flatten if you can dry out the back and then finish it to seal it. In the future seal front and back before you pour the epoxy.

- BlueRidgeDog

Do you have any experience sealing before using epoxy? If so what would you use to seal? I would be worried about having issues with the epoxy not adhering as well to a sealed surface but I don’t have any experience to draw from.

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com