LumberJocks

Breadboard Ends on Farmhouse Table (What type of joinery?)

  • Advertise with us

« back to Joinery forum

Forum topic by BigDwood posted 01-22-2019 01:50 AM 1324 views 0 times favorited 26 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View BigDwood's profile

BigDwood

11 posts in 278 days


01-22-2019 01:50 AM

Topic tags/keywords: joint furniture table

I’m new to woodworking, and my new project is a 4×4 Farmhouse Table. I want to incorporate breadboard ends and I want a strong, solid joint. The table is large, so the breadboards wood be 2×10’s. What are your suggestions guys? What type joint?


26 replies so far

View jdmaher's profile

jdmaher

461 posts in 3092 days


#1 posted 01-22-2019 04:07 AM

Well, here’s a picture

And that’s from a Woodcraft article on Breadbpard Ends.

There are variations, but that should give you the basic idea.

-- Jim Maher, Illinois

View jdh122's profile

jdh122

1097 posts in 3330 days


#2 posted 01-22-2019 12:12 PM

I guess you must want such wide breadboard for aesthetic reasons, but it’s sure going to complicate things. I would think that the tenons should be pretty long, given that anyone sitting at the end of the table who uses the table to stand up will have their whole weight only on the breadboards. I would make the tenons pretty long, say 4-5 inches, using the method that Jim suggests (though I haven’t pinned them in the middle tenon since it gets glued).

-- Jeremy, in the Acadian forests

View iamwelty's profile

iamwelty

263 posts in 3628 days


#3 posted 01-22-2019 01:37 PM

That’s what I’m going to do…

-- There is a fine line between eroticism and nausea...

View jamsomito's profile

jamsomito

433 posts in 939 days


#4 posted 01-22-2019 01:47 PM

Well… I built some plans by the Wood Whisperer that had breadboard ends, and it did not go so well. See here:

project: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/385105
Issues: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/280609

It looks even worse now that we’re in the winter season.

Some contributing factors:
1. I didn’t cut haunched tenons. I’m also a beginner/intermediate and I just didn’t have a way to cut them. So, I ran the breadboards straight through the table saw to make one solid “mortise” (more like a deep dado), and I cut the tenon on the tabletop with a circular saw, chisel, and power hand planer. It fit… but it did not seal well at all.

2. I used pressure treated pine. I skipped the big box store and went to my local lumber yard thinking it would be better quality. The stuff was supposedly kiln dried after treating, but it was sopping wet. I let it sit on my lumber rack for a year, and some boards were still heavier than the others when I assembled it. So, uneven moisture content made it warp, but regardless, it’s amazing watching this thing move from day to day with changing weather conditions. My glue joints failed and there are roughly 1/4” gaps between the boards when it’s really dry, and everything swells up and closes again when it rains. The whole top has a big bow in it, and my breadboard ends are completely failed (cracked and split) at this point.

So… if it’s designed perfectly correctly, maybe it would work. But I would strongly advise you to consider something else so you don’t find yourself needing to completely remake the top like I did.

I see Matt Cremona has a farmhouse table where he made breadboard ends, but he did the haunched tenons, his craftsmanship was orders of magnitude better than mine, and he sealed everything up with an outdoor epoxy finish (expensive). If you do all of this, I suppose it can work. But, I lack the skills to do it.

View BigDwood's profile

BigDwood

11 posts in 278 days


#5 posted 01-22-2019 01:48 PM

Ok…I’ll have to add 4-5 inches on both ends of my specs to incorporate the tenons. How thick do you suggest I make them? They’re 2×10’s again.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5542 posts in 2864 days


#6 posted 01-22-2019 01:58 PM

Those would be very wide breadboard ends. I’m not sure why you would want that. It will require cutting some very deep mortises and really the function of breadboards is to keep the top level. You can achieve that with much narrower breadboards and simplify your construction with shallower mortises. Something like 4” breadboards will actually be stronger because you will not be able to apply as much leverage on the end as you would a 10” breadboard.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View BigDwood's profile

BigDwood

11 posts in 278 days


#7 posted 01-22-2019 02:15 PM

@bondogaposis I actually agree with you Bondo. The aesthetic would be nice, but I feel like I’m comprising the integrity of the table.

Just for the sake of learning, would M&T be the only joint you’d go with? Would you ever consider dowels using the 2×4’s?

View Robert's profile

Robert

3539 posts in 1993 days


#8 posted 01-22-2019 02:20 PM

2×10 is too wide for a breadboard no matter how big the top for the reasons Bondo mentioned.

I wouldn’t go wider than 6” with 3-4” tenons. Tenon depth should be about 2/3 the width of the bb.

P.S. Don’t rely on a BB to keep a top flat. ;-)

If you’re using construction lumber, be VERY sure your lumber is dried and acclimated.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5542 posts in 2864 days


#9 posted 01-22-2019 02:28 PM

Just for the sake of learning, would M&T be the only joint you’d go with? Would you ever consider dowels using the 2×4’s?

Look at the picture jdmaher posted. It uses tenons and dowels. The key is the slotted dowel holes on the end tenons. It is not glued but allows the table top to move laterally with changes in humidity. I would not consider using dowels alone as it wouldn’t allow for wood movement.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View BigDwood's profile

BigDwood

11 posts in 278 days


#10 posted 01-22-2019 02:41 PM

It’s a kitchen/dining room table, so since it’s my first one, I’ll probably go with yellow pine, which is cheaper here in NC. I think with a nice stain and finish, it should still look nice.

View jamsomito's profile

jamsomito

433 posts in 939 days


#11 posted 01-22-2019 03:08 PM

Sorry, I was assuming it was an outdoor table for some reason. Should be a good project for indoors. Good luck and have fun.

View GrantA's profile

GrantA

1828 posts in 1920 days


#12 posted 01-22-2019 03:13 PM

Look for a sawmill and buy 5/4 or 6/4 yellow pine from them, have them kiln dry it. Surely there’s a place nearby. You’ll be miles ahead from buying 2x lumber from a building supply store and you’ll have made a valuable connection with a sawyer.

View BigDwood's profile

BigDwood

11 posts in 278 days


#13 posted 01-22-2019 03:21 PM

We have several local sawmills, but the design is for a bulky 4×4 base farmhouse look, so I’d think the top would look better with 8/4 and feel more solid.

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

1460 posts in 3362 days


#14 posted 01-22-2019 05:19 PM

Size and scale are important design aesthetics, that seems to be a awfully thick heavy top for a relatively small table, especially, if your breadboards are going to equal 19” of the table top, it will visually be a bit jarring. If you think about the fact that a general place setting is 20” to 24” of table top, and if you’re going with a farmhouse trestle base that’s two persons per side, see sketch, circles are a 10” dinner plate.

At the same size of plates a 4” breadboard has a better look and is perfectly effective for the design and the structure to combat cupping.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

View BigDwood's profile

BigDwood

11 posts in 278 days


#15 posted 01-22-2019 08:04 PM

The table is large, 4 ft wide and around 7 ft long. Not sure where your measurements are from.

showing 1 through 15 of 26 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com