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IBC vs Lie-Nielsen Plane Blades

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Forum topic by gauntlet21 posted 12-20-2018 08:11 PM 1250 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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gauntlet21

69 posts in 630 days


12-20-2018 08:11 PM

Topic tags/keywords: ln lie-nielsen lie nielsen ibc plane blade plane blades ibc vs lie nielsen ibc blades lie-nielsen blades lie nielsen blades chipbreakers plane blade comparison

I’ve got a couple of hand planes that I’ve really really enjoyed using which happen to mostly be from Lie-Nielsen. I’ve got one Woodriver block plane and a Veritas Shoulder Plane that I use occasionally (I’ve got a Lie-Nielsen Rabbet Block Plane that I hide the nickers on and use as my main block plane). All of my planes are relatively new and have the original plane blades in them. I’m a member of Rob Cosman’s Purple Heart Program and as a member have perused his website and seen that he is a big advocate of Woodcraft/Wood River as well as a few other companies like PEC and IBC. I’m wondering if anyone has had experience with both the Lie-Nielsen plane blades as well as the IBC and what your thoughts are on the two. My main interest is in the plane blades for a #4 and a #6 from Lie-Nielsen as those are the only two bench planes that I own currently.

I know that Lie-Nielsen blades are A2 steel, a Rockwell hardness of 60-62, cryogenically treated, and for the #4 bench plane, the blade thickness is 0.125” and sells for $40 ($50 for the #6 blade).
The Lie Nielsen chipbreaker is also 0.125” thick and priced at $25 for the #4 and $30 for the #6 bench plane. They have a 0.015” lip ground at 1 degree for snugging up tightly to the blade.

The IBC blades and chipbreakers (that are compatible with Lie-Nielsen hand planes) sold as a combo for the #4 are actually more expensive than the Lie-Nielsen brand at $74.90 (versus $65 for L.N.) The #6 IBC combo sells for $78.90 versus $80 for the L.N. The IBC blades are high Vanadium A2 tool steel (not sure if L.N. blades are high Vanadium) and are a little thicker at 0.140”. They have the same Rockwell Hardness of 60-62 and are also cryogenically treated. The IBC chipbreakers claim to be unique in that they are made of “high-carbon 0-1 steel, 0.125” thick and hardened to 30-32 HRc for added stiffness. They bevels are mated to a flatness tolerance of +/-0.001” along the entire cutting edge width.

What I’ve explained above is essentially all of the information available on both L.N. and IBC’s websites. They sound extremely similar but obviously, there may be intangible differences that differentiate these two from one another. If you’ve had experience using, sharpening, flattening, or any other encounters with both styles of blades, I’d love to hear your feedback. Again, I’ve only ever used L.N. blades in my L.N. planes and have very little usage of the Veritas PM-V11 tool steel as I’ve only used it when cleaning out a dado or rabbet with my medium shoulder plane. I’m not even certain what blade is in my Wood River (I’m assuming it is Wood River or an equivalent) as my desire to experiment with the best hand planes grew after purchasing a block plane (That isn’t a knock on Veritas, Wood River, Clifton, etc.). I was sold when I saw the Bronze No. 4 by L.N. and both the No. 4 and No. 6 have operated better than I ever imagined. I want to get an extra blade and chipbreaker for each of them so that if the original blade gets dull on me, I’m able to get my plane back up and running without having to stop to resharpen immediately.

Thanks for sharing in advance (assuming somebody does :) ),

Dan

If I failed to be concise, the cost comparison of both blades and chipbreakers is pretty close. There isn’t a discount by going with IBC blades and chipbreakers. I’m wondering if IBC blades are perhaps, superior? For the No. 4 L.N. setup, it is $65 plus maybe $6 or so for S&H. The IBC setup for the No. 4 was actually more expensive at $74.90 plus whatever their S&H is. IBC offers free shipping with purchases over $100 so I’d likely be buying both sets to qualify for free shipping. The No. 6 cost comparison is negligible at $80 for L.N. and $78.90 for IBC.

Quick Update:

Also, there are many other plane blade manufacturer’s out there so if there’s something that you know would fit the Lie-Nielsen planes I’ve mentioned and had great results, please share. I’ve heard of Hock blades but have not read anything about them. I know there are Pinnacle blades (not sure if they fit L.N.) and many more I’m sure. I’m open to suggestions.

Thanks


11 replies so far

View Andre's profile

Andre

2672 posts in 2225 days


#1 posted 12-20-2018 08:30 PM

My first hand plane was a Wood river 60 1/2 and Was IMO crap! then got a Stanley 60 1/2 which worked well (much better after switching the Iron to PMV-11) then on to a Brass LN 102 which did get a Hock Iron which you may want to look into also? I also picked up the LN 60 1/2 rabbet plane like yours which gets so little use, not worth changing irons. Being Canadian and with the $ exchange the last few years I have gone the Veritas ( Lee Valley ) route and exclusively PMV -11 Irons, even switched over any of my old Stanley’s, #3, 4, 5, 5 1/4 and 6.
IMHO the switch from stock LN over to anything other than PMV-11 not worth the effort.
I have never put the stock blade back into my 102 as for the time it takes to switch the irons, may as well just pass the blade over a waterstone and sharpen it?

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5453 posts in 2771 days


#2 posted 12-20-2018 10:03 PM

he is a big advocate of Woodcraft/Wood River as well as a few other companies like PEC and IBC.

Probably because they are sponsoring him, not necessarily a unbiased opinion.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

1496 posts in 1914 days


#3 posted 12-20-2018 11:45 PM

+1 Only plane blade worth buying as an upgrade from A2 is Veritas PM11 blades.

Have one LN plane with A2 blade, one LV plane with A2 blade, one Hock A2 blade and 2 IBC A2 blades in Stanley planes.
I see zero difference in how these A2 blades perform. Same for sharpening, same edge life, same cut quality. Neither one seems better than the other in my use on hardwood.

Many of my Stanley Bedrock planes have Veritas PM11 blades. PM11 has better edge life, and is little easier to sharpen on water stones. More PM11 blades will be on order after Santa delivers the black Friday purchased LV gift card this year.

YMMV

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View Smirak's profile

Smirak

99 posts in 938 days


#4 posted 12-20-2018 11:55 PM

The IBC blades work really good in my Woodriver planes. I know Rob personally, and I will say that he is a big supporter of Woodcraft and Woodriver planes. Since I consider him a friend and know him personally, I can tell you that his opinions for woodcraft and Woodriver are unbiased. However, what you might not know is that Rob used to be an authorized distributor for Lie Nielsen as well. He uses a mixture of both WR and LN planes in his shop. Most of his bench planes are WR with the exception of the #8 (LN) and many of his “specialty” planes are LN (like skew block for example).

View Marlow's profile

Marlow

182 posts in 3090 days


#5 posted 12-21-2018 11:04 PM

I’ve had less than positive experience with a couple if IBC blades: took forever to flatten the back. Never had this problem with LN or Veritas blades. I have avoided IBC blades ever since.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2359 posts in 2409 days


#6 posted 12-21-2018 11:28 PM

Only have an LN 102 that I think has an O1 iron which works fine. I have a couple of IBC A2 irons for LV bu planes, as well as LV A2 and pm-v11 irons. The pm-v11 is the winner, no contest. Versus A2 it is easier to sharpen, doesnt edge chip nearly as bad, and holds sharpness as well or better. If LV has one to fit thats the choice. The IBC’ required quite a bit more work to flatten the backs. Im not a fan of IBC vs LV or LN. Dont get too wrapped up in chip breakers, any of them can be quickly prepped to proper flatness and leading edge angle.

View jdh122's profile

jdh122

1078 posts in 3237 days


#7 posted 12-21-2018 11:58 PM

Any chance you’ll have to take a file to open the throat in order to fit that thicker blade? I’ve heard of people having to do that with Stanleys when they use the IBC, not sure if that’ll be the case of your Lie Nielsen plane. It may not be, since the LN blades are probably thicker than the stock blades on old Stanleys, but worth checking.

-- Jeremy, in the Acadian forests

View Andre's profile

Andre

2672 posts in 2225 days


#8 posted 12-22-2018 07:09 AM



Any chance you ll have to take a file to open the throat in order to fit that thicker blade? I ve heard of people having to do that with Stanleys when they use the IBC, not sure if that ll be the case of your Lie Nielsen plane. It may not be, since the LN blades are probably thicker than the stock blades on old Stanleys, but worth checking.

- jdh122

I think when I put the Hock iron in my 102 the throat was very tight, on the LN spokeshaves the throats were filed a bit for the Hock Irons. On the Stanleys the frogs were adjusted to fit the PMV-11 blades.

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

455 posts in 4388 days


#9 posted 12-22-2018 03:40 PM


I ve got a couple of hand planes that I ve really really enjoyed using which happen to mostly be from Lie-Nielsen. I ve got one Woodriver block plane and a Veritas Shoulder Plane that I use occasionally (I ve got a Lie-Nielsen Rabbet Block Plane that I hide the nickers on and use as my main block plane). All of my planes are relatively new and have the original plane blades in them. I m a member of Rob Cosman s Purple Heart Program and as a member have perused his website and seen that he is a big advocate of Woodcraft/Wood River as well as a few other companies like PEC and IBC. I m wondering if anyone has had experience with both the Lie-Nielsen plane blades as well as the IBC and what your thoughts are on the two. My main interest is in the plane blades for a #4 and a #6 from Lie-Nielsen as those are the only two bench planes that I own currently.

I know that Lie-Nielsen blades are A2 steel, a Rockwell hardness of 60-62, cryogenically treated, and for the #4 bench plane, the blade thickness is 0.125” and sells for $40 ($50 for the #6 blade).
The Lie Nielsen chipbreaker is also 0.125” thick and priced at $25 for the #4 and $30 for the #6 bench plane. They have a 0.015” lip ground at 1 degree for snugging up tightly to the blade.

The IBC blades and chipbreakers (that are compatible with Lie-Nielsen hand planes) sold as a combo for the #4 are actually more expensive than the Lie-Nielsen brand at $74.90 (versus $65 for L.N.) The #6 IBC combo sells for $78.90 versus $80 for the L.N. The IBC blades are high Vanadium A2 tool steel (not sure if L.N. blades are high Vanadium) and are a little thicker at 0.140”. They have the same Rockwell Hardness of 60-62 and are also cryogenically treated. The IBC chipbreakers claim to be unique in that they are made of “high-carbon 0-1 steel, 0.125” thick and hardened to 30-32 HRc for added stiffness. They bevels are mated to a flatness tolerance of +/-0.001” along the entire cutting edge width.

What I ve explained above is essentially all of the information available on both L.N. and IBC s websites. They sound extremely similar but obviously, there may be intangible differences that differentiate these two from one another. If you ve had experience using, sharpening, flattening, or any other encounters with both styles of blades, I d love to hear your feedback. Again, I ve only ever used L.N. blades in my L.N. planes and have very little usage of the Veritas PM-V11 tool steel as I ve only used it when cleaning out a dado or rabbet with my medium shoulder plane. I m not even certain what blade is in my Wood River (I m assuming it is Wood River or an equivalent) as my desire to experiment with the best hand planes grew after purchasing a block plane (That isn t a knock on Veritas, Wood River, Clifton, etc.). I was sold when I saw the Bronze No. 4 by L.N. and both the No. 4 and No. 6 have operated better than I ever imagined. I want to get an extra blade and chipbreaker for each of them so that if the original blade gets dull on me, I m able to get my plane back up and running without having to stop to resharpen immediately.

Thanks for sharing in advance (assuming somebody does :) ),

Dan

If I failed to be concise, the cost comparison of both blades and chipbreakers is pretty close. There isn t a discount by going with IBC blades and chipbreakers. I m wondering if IBC blades are perhaps, superior? For the No. 4 L.N. setup, it is $65 plus maybe $6 or so for S&H. The IBC setup for the No. 4 was actually more expensive at $74.90 plus whatever their S&H is. IBC offers free shipping with purchases over $100 so I d likely be buying both sets to qualify for free shipping. The No. 6 cost comparison is negligible at $80 for L.N. and $78.90 for IBC.

Quick Update:

Also, there are many other plane blade manufacturer s out there so if there s something that you know would fit the Lie-Nielsen planes I ve mentioned and had great results, please share. I ve heard of Hock blades but have not read anything about them. I know there are Pinnacle blades (not sure if they fit L.N.) and many more I m sure. I m open to suggestions.

Thanks

- gauntlet21

So much poppycock. I really like Rob, but if he stated that IBC blades would make a significant improvement over LN blades, well he is talking with his salesman hat on. He represents IBC and WoodRiver.

The question is … are you dissatisfied with your LN blades? If not, or you cannot qualify what it is that you are unhappy about, then you are simply being influenced by advertising.

The LN blades are A2, but they are cryogenically treated, which improves the grain structure. As far as I know, the IBC blades are just A2. The extra thickness is just a bunch of advertising again … the extra thickness has absolutely no advantage. The LN blades are already very thick and, indeed, thicker than adding much more of relevance. 3/16” will not offer any advantage over 1/8”.

If you really want a step up from LN’s A2, then try Veritas PM-V11. The advantage here is that the PM steel has more carbides – which is good for edge retention, but naturally leads to coarse grain structure. However the nature of PM steel is that it creates a fine grain structure, so you end up with steel with the fine grain of O1 steel and an edge retention several times that of A2. The PM-V11 blades are thinner, but that will not matter at all – I use them in my LN #3 and #4 1/2.

I like the PM-V11 very much, but I do also use the LN A2 steel, and am happy enough with it. I also build furniture using hard and abrasive and interlocked Australian timber, and these blades hold up well.

There is really no need to change the LN blades.

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View gauntlet21's profile

gauntlet21

69 posts in 630 days


#10 posted 01-01-2019 06:39 PM

Thanks for the replies, I guess I’ll stick with the L.N. blades considering they’re performing remarkably well and I definitely don’t want to alter the tool with a file just to try something new. Perhaps in the future, once I’ve got all of the necessary tools to complete my workshop (that day may never come), I’ll invest in a different branded blade just to compare. There are a couple of Veritas bench planes I’d like to add to my collection and for those, I’d definitely fork up the extra $10-15 for the PM-V11 blade.

View Andre's profile

Andre

2672 posts in 2225 days


#11 posted 01-01-2019 08:11 PM

Only problem with the PMV-11 is your sharpening skills get forgotten:)
Hope you can wear some blades out so that you get some new ones real soon?

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

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