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Forum topic by Spikes posted 12-02-2018 06:24 AM 1270 views 0 times favorited 28 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Spikes

125 posts in 431 days


12-02-2018 06:24 AM

Hi,

I’ve read as many threads here on LJ and looked around, but still can’t quite figure out what’s the best investment I can make, hope folks here can help out as usual :).

First off, budget and goals: I’ve saved up around $1K, better if I can stay around $800, and will mostly be resawing logs, cutting blanks and a bunch of small parts for bandsaw boxes and other box-like stuff for gifts etc.

Looking at what’s out there it seems that most people are happy with 14” BS and add a raiser block to get 12” of resawing, which seems to be the max on larger 17” bandsaws. Brand wise I’ve seen recommendations for just about anything, powermatic (most expensive?), delta (most common probably, easier to find used on ebay), grizzly (second most common) and apparently laguna is on the rise and the 14|12 is a big hit.

So here’s the list of things I can’t quite figure out:

1) is the older(?) “round” design worse than the squarish design they seem to go on new bandsaws? ie this:

vs this:

I can’t find information why that diff in design, if it adds rigidity and that’s it

2) Size of the motor. obviously the more powerful the better, but do you need 2HP to cut through hardwood or will 1HP do just fine?

3) how important are cast iron wheels?

4) some grizzlys for example are made in taiwan vs some in USA, should the taiwan ones be avoided?

5) I can’t tell if a 14” bed vs a 17” one will make that much of a difference for what I’m trying to do, thinking it won’t, but not sure.

6) how effective/useful is to have 2 dust collection ports? one larger at the back and one on the side, closer to the blade/hole

anything else I’m missing I should keep in mind when getting a BS?

thanks for all the feedback,

Spike

-- Don't worry about making progress, worry about practicing. If you practice you will make progress even if you don't want to.


28 replies so far

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1871 days


#1 posted 12-02-2018 06:34 AM

I think the squarish shape is the steel frame and the rounded cast iron. Setup properly a 14” w riser will work like a champ.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5478 posts in 3629 days


#2 posted 12-02-2018 04:29 PM

Check out the Rikon model 10-324 bandsaw. It has a 13” depth of cut and 1-1/2 hp. Cost is $899.95. I don’t have one, but if I were looking to buy a new BS, I would definitely consider Rikon. Take a look at their online manual; very impressive.

I noted there were a lot of customer complaints for the Rikon 10-345 saw which is an 18” saw. One must keep in mind these saws are made in CHINA, so buyer beware but that is true of all the saws, as most are made in CHINA. I’m not sure about Laguna. Jet and PM are made in Taiwan, so they may be more reliable.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3707 days


#3 posted 12-02-2018 04:47 PM



Hi,

I ve read as many threads here on LJ and looked around, but still can t quite figure out what s the best investment I can make, hope folks here can help out as usual :).

First off, budget and goals: I ve saved up around $1K, better if I can stay around $800, and will mostly be resawing logs, cutting blanks and a bunch of small parts for bandsaw boxes and other box-like stuff for gifts etc.

Looking at what s out there it seems that most people are happy with 14” BS and add a raiser block to get 12” of resawing, which seems to be the max on larger 17” bandsaws. Brand wise I ve seen recommendations for just about anything, powermatic (most expensive?), delta (most common probably, easier to find used on ebay), grizzly (second most common) and apparently laguna is on the rise and the 14|12 is a big hit.

So here s the list of things I can t quite figure out:

1) is the older(?) “round” design worse than the squarish design they seem to go on new bandsaws? ie this:

vs this:

I can t find information why that diff in design, if it adds rigidity and that s it

2) Size of the motor. obviously the more powerful the better, but do you need 2HP to cut through hardwood or will 1HP do just fine?

3) how important are cast iron wheels?

4) some grizzlys for example are made in taiwan vs some in USA, should the taiwan ones be avoided?

5) I can t tell if a 14” bed vs a 17” one will make that much of a difference for what I m trying to do, thinking it won t, but not sure.

6) how effective/useful is to have 2 dust collection ports? one larger at the back and one on the side, closer to the blade/hole

anything else I m missing I should keep in mind when getting a BS?

thanks for all the feedback,

Spike

- Spikes

You can get significantly more than 12” of resaw on 16-18” saws, Laguna, Rikon, SCM/Formula, Powermatic and Felder all have tall resaw height saws but those are out of your budget.

As mentioned the rounded 14” saws are cast iron frames and clones of the venerable Delta saw. This is neither a positive or negative but depends on the build of the saw. There are plenty of incredible old cast iron saws around (Oliver, Yates, Northfield, Robbins, Wadkin etc) but they are extremely heavy. The welded steel saws can be much stiffer for the same amount of weight and welded steel saws dominate the market today. The Delta and clones of their 14” saw are solid saws but the modern 14” steel saws are stiffer and generally better for resawing as a result of being able to tension a blade with a larger cross section. At your budget, if you are buying new the Laguna 14/12 and Rikon 10-326 are arguably the best saws. It is harder to recommend used saws because one never knows what they might find at what price.

2. horsepower in general terms just means speed, with the proper blade and enough patience you can slice 12” veneer with 3/4hp but the feedrate will be very slow and the quality of the cut will suffer. My personal recommendation is 1/4 hp per inch of cut, this is the hp matches a good resaw blade for feedrate in most hardwoods. Again less power just means slower in most cases.

3. the lower the horsepower of the motor the more important cast iron wheels are since they store energy that can be used when the saw is pushed but it is just momentary. It generally is an indication of a better built saw but just for info since you won’t be looking at them with your budget the huge old American bandsaws almost never had cast iron wheels.

4 No Grizzly machines are made in the US, just Taiwan and China, all their bandsaws except the tiny table tops are made in Taiwan. The only two companies that build vertical woodworking bandsaws in the US today are Northfield and Tannewitz. Italy is well known for high quality welded steel bandsaws but both these options are well outside your budget.

5. only you can answer if you need more than 14” of throat.

6. I have saws that are more effective with one DC port than ones with 2, it depends on how they are designed

Some of the things not mentioned that can be important are table size, guides and the ability to tension wider blades (not when the spec says it will handle a certain width that does not mean it will tension blades of that width, just that the wheels and guides will accommodate them).

View Spikes's profile

Spikes

125 posts in 431 days


#4 posted 12-02-2018 06:03 PM

thanks a lot for the comments. I feel like based on the offers and what I’m seeing it’s down to Laguna vs Rikon vs Grizzly. I’m guessing the made in usa is not really a thing with any of them and it seems Laguna is also no longer manufacturing stuff in Italy, either eastern europe or even China judging from some other forum posts. Looking at the specs and costs I’m seeing the following:

- the rikon 10-324 and 326 have the same resawing capacity, but the 326 has the cast iron wheel, a better trunnion and 1/4 more HP. Are those differences worth $300? (I found the 324 on offer for around $800 and the 326 is $1099).

- the grizzly G0513ANV has a 2HP so if motor is a big factor then this is a winner. Also it’s a 17”, but resawing capacity wise it seems to lose 1” and be the standard 12”. No cast iron wheels either and overall fabrication seems weaker than the rikon, altho maybe just an impression

- the laguna seems to have overall higher build quality and in several forum discussions people said that if they had the money/option they’d bought laguna over their rikon, even tho their rikon did just fine. motor for the 14|12 is 1HP 3/4, so smaller than the grizzly and smaller table, it’s a 14” after all. Also price (unless found on offer) is higher than the grizzly. Trunnion system looks very good.

One thing I’m confused about regarding re-sawing capacity, I found several posts where ppl were talking about the 14|12 for example and resawing 13” worth of timber. He had pics so while I couldnt’ measure them it seems reasonable to believe the poster. Is the 12” spec only nominal and in fact many BS will do 13” or something?

thanks,

-- Don't worry about making progress, worry about practicing. If you practice you will make progress even if you don't want to.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3707 days


#5 posted 12-02-2018 06:45 PM



thanks a lot for the comments. I feel like based on the offers and what I m seeing it s down to Laguna vs Rikon vs Grizzly. I m guessing the made in usa is not really a thing with any of them and it seems Laguna is also no longer manufacturing stuff in Italy, either eastern europe or even China judging from some other forum posts. Looking at the specs and costs I m seeing the following:

- the rikon 10-324 and 326 have the same resawing capacity, but the 326 has the cast iron wheel, a better trunnion and 1/4 more HP. Are those differences worth $300? (I found the 324 on offer for around $800 and the 326 is $1099).

- the grizzly G0513ANV has a 2HP so if motor is a big factor then this is a winner. Also it s a 17”, but resawing capacity wise it seems to lose 1” and be the standard 12”. No cast iron wheels either and overall fabrication seems weaker than the rikon, altho maybe just an impression

- the laguna seems to have overall higher build quality and in several forum discussions people said that if they had the money/option they d bought laguna over their rikon, even tho their rikon did just fine. motor for the 14|12 is 1HP 3/4, so smaller than the grizzly and smaller table, it s a 14” after all. Also price (unless found on offer) is higher than the grizzly. Trunnion system looks very good.

One thing I m confused about regarding re-sawing capacity, I found several posts where ppl were talking about the 14|12 for example and resawing 13” worth of timber. He had pics so while I couldnt measure them it seems reasonable to believe the poster. Is the 12” spec only nominal and in fact many BS will do 13” or something?

thanks,

- Spikes

Grizzly, Laguna and Rikon have never built machines in the US. Laguna still imports Italian saws made by ACM in Italy but just like the Centauro built SCM saws they are well out of your budget as the 16” saws are around $3500.

IMO the 10-326 is worth the premium over the 10-324. Again IMO the 10-326 and 14/12 are the best new saws for your budget.

The problem with the 513ANV is it is a serious stripper price point saw. It has poor guides that are fidgety to set, a small table, lacks a resaw fence and has aluminum wheels along with some other smaller cons. The 513X2 fixes the deficiencies but runs about $1300 shipped. I would much rather have the 14/12 or 10-326 over the 513ANV unless I absolutely needed the extra throat depth.

Resaw height is often rounded off and you can have a little more or less than the spec. If you really are going to be cutting 12” of hardwood regularly then you might consider saving a little longer and getting a more capable saw. I will point out again you can resaw 12” with very little horsepower with the right blade and patience but you wouldn’t want to do it often.

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

606 posts in 1847 days


#6 posted 12-02-2018 08:29 PM

Some great info here. I have the Grizzly G0513X2. I too looked at the 513anv, but decided the the features were lacking vs the X2. More bang for the buck.
with a 3/4” blade I re sawed a chunk of mesquite about 8” wide. Thats the largest I have tried so far, and it handled it easily.
I agree with AHuxley. If you are going to re saw 12” on a regular basis you are going to want a bigger saw.
But re reading you original post, You seem like you will be using your saw pretty much the same as I use mine.
I grab up a little local wood from the tree trimmers. Mesquite, Ash, Some assorted fruit wood, what ever I can find, and cut into turning blanks. So far I have only had chunks about 24” to 30” long. I have not tried to make veneer thin yet. But have done well down to 1/4” thick for a box lid. I would like to get a log 6’ plus. Try my hand at making 5/4 thick boards for some box projects.

-- John

View Spikes's profile

Spikes

125 posts in 431 days


#7 posted 12-02-2018 09:17 PM

thanks @bigJohn and @AHuxley . I didn’t want to invest money in a saw that I’m gonna outgrow quickly, but honestly I think I’m just day dreaming and in reality I’ll be cutting way below 12” for quite some time so that should be plenty. Likewise I’m not a production shop so if it takes longer to resaw a board because the motor isn’t the mightiest that’s not a problem and I tend to agree that the build seems much more solid than the G513 (I’d buy the G513X2, but it’s a bit too much budget wise and I think I found a rikon 326 on offer).

Also I like the high resaw fence, if I didn’t get the X2 in grizzly land the fence the normal G513 ships with is a low and while it can be adjusted with another piece of plywood it’s more work and maybe less precision (and you eat up some of the bed space).

Last but not least somebody in another thread brought up that the rikon offers 5yrs warranty while laguna only 1yr altho you never know what the warranty ends up really covering until something fails and you call in – far too many times it was blamed on wear and tear or poor maintenance and refused to replace under warranty.

so I guess I’m going to buy the Rikon 10-326 or Laguna 14/12 (or Grizzly G0513X2 if something unexpected happens) depending on the deal I’m able to find, but considering budget and warranty that’s probably going to be the Rikon.

thanks all for the input, very helpful as usual,

-- Don't worry about making progress, worry about practicing. If you practice you will make progress even if you don't want to.

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3034 posts in 2410 days


#8 posted 12-03-2018 01:13 AM

Be aware that the cast iron frames are 2 part—upper and lower—and this is why you can put a riser in, typically to give 12” of resew height. Welded steel frames are one piece, so whatever height is built into the saw is what you’re stuck with.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1871 days


#9 posted 12-03-2018 02:44 AM

Fortunately I think the steel framed saws are geared for resawing.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Spikes's profile

Spikes

125 posts in 431 days


#10 posted 12-03-2018 03:24 AM

@runswithscissors yeah, but what @TheFridge said, all the steel framed BSs I looked at were already at the height (12”) you’d get from an older design (usually 6”) + a raiser block (another 6”). So that should not be a problem. I think one exception is a grizzly that can do 13”, but I don’t think that accepts a raiser block either:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-14-Extreme-Series-Resaw-Bandsaw/G0555XH

I dont’ think you can put a raiser block on that one even tho it’s the same design as the usual ones where it’s used.

-- Don't worry about making progress, worry about practicing. If you practice you will make progress even if you don't want to.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3707 days


#11 posted 12-03-2018 03:36 AM



@runswithscissors yeah, but what @TheFridge said, all the steel framed BSs I looked at were already at the height (12”) you d get from an older design (usually 6”) + a raiser block (another 6”). So that should not be a problem. I think one exception is a grizzly that can do 13”, but I don t think that accepts a raiser block either:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-14-Extreme-Series-Resaw-Bandsaw/G0555XH

I dont think you can put a raiser block on that one even tho it s the same design as the usual ones where it s used.

- Spikes

The Grizzly you linked to does have 12” of resaw height and does not accept a riser, it is just a one piece frame that has the same height as a more standard Delta clone with a riser. It is similar to the Jet JWBS-14DXPRO which has been around for years.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

1908 posts in 989 days


#12 posted 12-03-2018 04:14 AM

All things being equal IMHO if you are going to be doing a lot of resawing at 12” I’d go with one of the stainless steel cast one piece models like Laguna, Rikon or the Griz you showed above. A 3/4” blade on a cast iron 14” saw with a riser is at the outer limits of the saws ability.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1976 posts in 2279 days


#13 posted 12-03-2018 06:04 AM


Resaw height is often rounded off and you can have a little more or less than the spec. If you really are going to be cutting 12” of hardwood regularly then you might consider saving a little longer and getting a more capable saw.
- AHuxley

I defer to AHuxley on overall bandsaw knowledge but I can say this is definitely true with my saw. I own the Grizzly G0513X2 and really like it – max cutting height is 12”. Actually, they say it’s 12 1/8”. Right now I’m making a little end table and needed to resaw a 12” wide board that could barely fit in there. (Didn’t want to glue two boards together in this case, I had something that was one piece that I could not pass up.) The end result will very slightly less than 12”, don’t care. But if you think you’re going to regularly need the max resaw value, I’d definitely shoot for higher than 1/8” of what you’re expecting to use. I’ve owned this saw for about three years and this is the only time I’ve maxed out the resaw capacity. I don’t expect to push it to that limit much at all in the future, and I’m OK with that limit. 12” is good for my purposes, for others it is not. Depends on what you’re doing. Just something for you to consider.

Can’t add anything else to what’s been said except – in general, buy the maximum amount of saw you can afford. The last thing you want to do is come to the realization months down the road that you just flushed $750 or $1000 or whatever the amount down the toilet and should have spent just a little more. Not a lot more, but some more. A lot more is easier to reconcile. I don’t know how many people are gonna say: I should have bought a $3K bandsaw instead of a $1K. But saying I should have bought a $1,200 bandsaw instead of a $900 bandsaw? Bring on the curse words.

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2646 posts in 2520 days


#14 posted 12-03-2018 10:16 AM

With this saw do not need a riser block, increased HP, and added cast iron wheels and re-saw fence. With shipping going little over your $1,000 budget. Only option might need is mobile base. If going to do a lot of re-sawing might look at those blades at Highland Hardware.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-14-Extreme-Series-Resaw-Bandsaw/G0555XH

-- Bill

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3707 days


#15 posted 12-03-2018 05:11 PM



With this saw do not need a riser block, increased HP, and added cast iron wheels and re-saw fence. With shipping going little over your $1,000 budget. Only option might need is mobile base. If going to do a lot of re-sawing might look at those blades at Highland Hardware.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-14-Extreme-Series-Resaw-Bandsaw/G0555XH

- Wildwood

That is the saw mentioned above which is a copy of the Jet. The cast iron saws aren’t really a good value any more considering you can buy a steel framed saw, which will be more rigid, for the same or less money.

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