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Grizzly 833p Table Saw (If you buy one, read this)

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Forum topic by Blackfin29 posted 11-23-2018 06:52 PM 2240 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Blackfin29

97 posts in 562 days


11-23-2018 06:52 PM

Took delivery of my new 833 around July this past summer. Waiting for completion of new shop space to unbox and assemble.
1st issue- Relatively minor but I received absolutely NO hardware. Quick call to Grizzly and they made good on that. Actually kudos to them as the actual “bag” of complete hardware was not available at this time, so they literally went through the parts list and hand labelled every single bag with it’s contents. Took a few days, but they made good. REAL good.

2nd issue- MUCH more of a nuisance. I fully assembled the saw, fence system and all. Fence is actually darn nice from what I’ve seen so far. SMOOTH as a baby’s behind and locks down nice. I have a top of the line Vega that I will actually not even be using unless I find issues with this new Grizzly over time.

Here’s the issue… Grizzly has you mount the fence system and then find parallel to miters, which seems very standard. Well my 833 was literally 1/8” off parallel. You could drive a truck through the gap on the rear of the blade as compared to front of blade on same carbide tooth. I next read that only 4 bolts held the table to the cabinet, so I unloosened 3 thinking I could deadblow the rear of the table over until parallel. I banged, and banged and ZERO movement on the table top on top the cabinet. Loosen all 4 screws and I can’t even slide the SOB by hand to try and rough it in. Well I tapped and tapped and laying on the ground I got to thinking there had to be another bolt I couldn’t see maybe under the table. Literally 6 hours later of scratching my head, fully removing the fence system, removing the side wings!!, taking countless measures with my dial indicator, etc.. I happen to fully remove those screws ONLY TO SEE these 2 tiny hex head allen screws hidden beneath the freaking washers. These 2 set screws were ONLY on front right, and rear left. ZERO mention of them in the owner’s manual so I wasn’t comfortable just backing them out, and besides they were so tiny I couldn’t imagine they were holding this cast top down.
So another couple hours last night mulling over what the hell is going on, and why my top wouldn’t move without luck. Yeah about 8 hours of time wasted because of the holiday where I was unable to call tech support, and I didn’t want to just start removing hardware willy nilly.
Well I call tech support this morning, and the guy says the manual doesn’t show anything other than 4 cap screws holding the top down. He then puts me on hold and comes back to tell me that those set screws were put in FOR NO REASON and should be removed. And yes they were stopping the table from moving into parallel.

My question is this.. Why NO Customer Bulletin on this Grizzly?? This doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling on this saw, however, it sure seems nice other than that, but the QA/QC process should catch this. I wish I could show you how small these 2 allens were.. almost looked like set screws for some adjustment… TINY and hidden under the washer. WTF.

I’m a big Grizzly fan-boy with thousands of dollars of equipment in my shop in Grizzly Green (Mostly Metal Work) but I’m damn upset about this one small transgression honestly.

I’m keeping the saw, and I’m happy overall…. I just hope to help someone AVOID going through what I just went through. Oh yeah now I get to put the wings and fence system BACK on this SOB…. I guess it’s a good problem to have as this means it’s fixed and parallel.


17 replies so far

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

2280 posts in 2191 days


#1 posted 11-23-2018 09:46 PM

Are the set screws positioned in a way that they push up on the top. Acting like shims?

-- Aj

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Blackfin29

97 posts in 562 days


#2 posted 11-23-2018 10:10 PM

Yes one would think they would serve as shims yet they are ultra lightweight… Christ my Woodpecker’s Super Fence has more robust/skookum set shims to push an MDF sacrificial fence forward.

This is a major league WOOPS by the manufacturer in Taiwan. Me thinks, they put them there when they weren’t supposed to be there, Period.

So they know about it, why not just issue a bulletin…. Now I read a few reviews and one other guy mentions it but in a different context.

As for shims, this table was actually shimmed a smidge on read left using your common horse-shoe shaped shims.

Again just annoyed. Love the saw, and the US based support they provide.

View mtnwalton's profile

mtnwalton

51 posts in 1420 days


#3 posted 11-24-2018 04:45 AM

I’ve had the same saw for about a year and had an issue in alignment as well. Not off as much as yours, but still. I finally saw the set screws after crawling underneath (not easy with stenosis in neck and arthritis). I can’t remember if they were in locating holes or not.
I’ve added a digital readout on the rail , and just got the Jess-em clear cut hold downs. Because of that I’m replacing the aluminum portion of the fence with a uni-t-fence. Has anyone else used these on this saw? I’m also planning on rigging up a switchable magnet to hold down the outer end of the fence. (The Jess-em hold downs will lift the fence I believe when in use.)

I hope to post pictures if I ever get around to installing.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1879 days


#4 posted 11-24-2018 07:02 AM

Well you know. It’s kinda thrown together with the fewest processes that’ll keep a customer happy so the details like that don’t surprise me. I bought a couple griz items. Needed parts for both and a major deburring. Hard to beat dealing with a couple issues for the price.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 562 days


#5 posted 11-24-2018 02:00 PM


I ve added a digital readout on the rail

- mtnwalton

Which one did you end up going with?

Also I completely agree with Fridge it’s hard to beat it the prices and quality of Grizzly product. I honestly wonder sometimes how they do it as affordably as they do.

As for them slapping units together… True but they are clearly making the attempt, and failing, which screams QA or even training. FOR EXAMPLE… I just got in from the shop, I now have parallel at 0 degrees but my 45 was off fairly significantly. I’ve shimmed my fair share of table saws in my day, and it’s not rocket science.. lift this side, the opposite side is affected, right? Well my 45 was off because they shimmed it OUT OF alignment. So to achieve parallel at 45 I had to UNDO what they did. I removed their shims and it fell into place. Point being that the attempt is being made, but they have it ass-backwards…haha..

All in all this was great because I was able to teach my youngest boy how to really troubleshoot something that had me stumped, and now he knows that saw inside and out.

Ok.. well I’m off to go Shrinkwrap my boat in this balmy New England weather!!!

Thanks for listening.

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mtnwalton

51 posts in 1420 days


#6 posted 11-24-2018 10:19 PM

I went with the Wixey, simple install.

I ve added a digital readout on the rail

- mtnwalton

Which one did you end up going with?

Also I completely agree with Fridge it s hard to beat it the prices and quality of Grizzly product. I honestly wonder sometimes how they do it as affordably as they do.

As for them slapping units together… True but they are clearly making the attempt, and failing, which screams QA or even training. FOR EXAMPLE… I just got in from the shop, I now have parallel at 0 degrees but my 45 was off fairly significantly. I ve shimmed my fair share of table saws in my day, and it s not rocket science.. lift this side, the opposite side is affected, right? Well my 45 was off because they shimmed it OUT OF alignment. So to achieve parallel at 45 I had to UNDO what they did. I removed their shims and it fell into place. Point being that the attempt is being made, but they have it ass-backwards…haha..

All in all this was great because I was able to teach my youngest boy how to really troubleshoot something that had me stumped, and now he knows that saw inside and out.

Ok.. well I m off to go Shrinkwrap my boat in this balmy New England weather!!!

Thanks for listening.

- Blackfin29


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TheFridge

10858 posts in 1879 days


#7 posted 11-24-2018 10:36 PM

Well. I’d call it value. Not quality. I’d expect quality from a better brand. I wouldn’t put up with the same issues with a powermatic.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3715 days


#8 posted 11-24-2018 11:39 PM


This is a major league WOOPS by the manufacturer in Taiwan.

You may have found the issue, if they put the set screws on in Taiwan they may have done it without the factory in China that built the rest of the saw knowing. :)

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 562 days


#9 posted 11-25-2018 09:41 PM

This is a major league WOOPS by the manufacturer in Taiwan.

You may have found the issue, if they put the set screws on in Taiwan they may have done it without the factory in China that built the rest of the saw knowing. :)

- AHuxley

Yup you got me there… China, Taiwan, or La Vergne, TN ya know.. all the same :-)

Honestly though, and I think we could all agree, the biggest factor in attaining quality woodworking results, lies halfway between the left ear and the right ear of the 200 pound gorilla (*AvE) standing in front of the Green, Yellow, White, or Black saw, and is completely independent of where that saw was built.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5495 posts in 3637 days


#10 posted 11-26-2018 07:07 PM

Saws 30+ tears ago didn’t have the problems present in today’s offerings. These designs are nothing new. They have been around for many years without change. Somewhere along the line, somebody decided to make a change here and there to make it more cost effective and in the process, destroyed a good working design. When will they learn to leave well enough alone and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. I have a cabinet saw that is over 30 years old and has never had to be “adjusted or realigned”. That’s because it was a tried and proven design; no reason to change it. That saw is still as accurate as when it was new. It’s a Jet saw BTW. I have no intention of ever replacing it. I don’t need any problems. I think I’ll go out to the shop and hug my wonderful saw. Owners of the old unisaws and PM saws know what I mean.

View Blackfin29's profile

Blackfin29

97 posts in 562 days


#11 posted 11-27-2018 06:37 PM



Saws 30+ tears ago didn t have the problems present in today s offerings. These designs are nothing new. They have been around for many years without change. Somewhere along the line, somebody decided to make a change here and there to make it more cost effective and in the process, destroyed a good working design. When will they learn to leave well enough alone and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. I have a cabinet saw that is over 30 years old and has never had to be “adjusted or realigned”. That s because it was a tried and proven design; no reason to change it. That saw is still as accurate as when it was new. It s a Jet saw BTW. I have no intention of ever replacing it. I don t need any problems. I think I ll go out to the shop and hug my wonderful saw. Owners of the old unisaws and PM saws know what I mean.

- MrRon

I agree with the vast majority of your words. However, and perhaps I’m biased as R&D is my living, if we didn’t try to continually “evolve” we would have missed out on some pretty cool stuff. Take Saw Stop’s flesh sensing technology as one major example. This might be a stretch but also the riving knives of today might be another example. Heck now that I think of it, the vast majority of “Growth” we’ve seen is based in safety and likely not truly a pondered-up feature. Anyways… I love tools both old and new!!!

View JADobson's profile

JADobson

1442 posts in 2504 days


#12 posted 11-27-2018 09:54 PM

I would imagine that saws from 30 years ago had these exact same problems. You’ve just had thirty years to forget about them.

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

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MrRon

5495 posts in 3637 days


#13 posted 11-27-2018 09:59 PM


I agree with the vast majority of your words. However, and perhaps I m biased as R&D is my living, if we didn t try to continually “evolve” we would have missed out on some pretty cool stuff. Take Saw Stop s flesh sensing technology as one major example. This might be a stretch but also the riving knives of today might be another example. Heck now that I think of it, the vast majority of “Growth” we ve seen is based in safety and likely not truly a pondered-up feature. Anyways… I love tools both old and new!!!
- Blackfin29

I can agree that evolution must go on, but my complaints between old and new machinery is not the safety devices being put on today’s tools (insurance concern driven), but the overall quality. The quality just doesn’t seem to be there anymore. Metals used are not as good as in the older machines. That is why these old machines are still with us; the quality of the materials were better. An example is the “aging” of castings that doesn’t seem to be done anymore. It takes time to build a good machine. Machines like CNC machining centers cost a great deal of money because they are carefully made using quality materials. How much care can be put into a $1000 machine. I believe today’s goods are designed to only last a limited amount of time. It has to do with repeat sales. Like Henry Ford’s model T, he learned that he would soon go out of business if his cars lasted too long. This is a throw-away society by design.

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3715 days


#14 posted 11-27-2018 10:40 PM



I can agree that evolution must go on, but my complaints between old and new machinery is not the safety devices being put on today s tools (insurance concern driven), but the overall quality. The quality just doesn t seem to be there anymore. Metals used are not as good as in the older machines. That is why these old machines are still with us; the quality of the materials were better. An example is the “aging” of castings that doesn t seem to be done anymore. It takes time to build a good machine. Machines like CNC machining centers cost a great deal of money because they are carefully made using quality materials. How much care can be put into a $1000 machine. I believe today s goods are designed to only last a limited amount of time. It has to do with repeat sales. Like Henry Ford s model T, he learned that he would soon go out of business if his cars lasted too long. This is a throw-away society by design.

- MrRon

Part of the issue is in the case of the cabinet saw they are not used commercially very often now. Small to medium cabinet shops use sliders (if they are capitalized well enough) and larger cabinet shops use CNC. The hobbyists is the primary target for cabinet saws now and they are price sensitive as a whole. Take for example the last time the PM141 (14” cast bandsaw) was in the Powermatic catalog it cost almost $2K, that was about 20 years ago. How many hobbyists will pay that for a 14” saw with 6” of height below the guides? You can still buy an industrial level cabinet saw or bandsaw if you are willing to spend the money.

BTW aging of cast iron doesn’t need to be done today and relies on the seasonal changes at the foundry to work well. It doesn’t mean all foundries are properly annealing their CI but outdoor seasoning is neither preferred nor cost-effective.

High-quality tools and machines for any facet of woodworking are still available just the price point is out of reach for most hobbyists and since many are no longer used in commercial settings the price goes up even further.

While it is a throwaway society most hobby shops I see have much more capacity than those of 30 years ago and people are willing to make that sacrifice just like they do inside their home where many would rather have a 70” UHD flat panel vs a 26” tube SD TV even though the life of the flat panel is likely only 1/4 as long and normally can’t be repaired economically.

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Blackfin29

97 posts in 562 days


#15 posted 11-28-2018 09:32 PM


Machines like CNC machining centers cost a great deal of money because they are carefully made using quality materials. How much care can be put into a $1000 machine. I believe today s goods are designed to only last a limited amount of time.

- MrRon

Leads me to another question… As I was looking at CNC machines this afternoon at a Woodcraft Store…

When using a CNC to “Make stuff” should that even be qualified a Woodworking? Not a knock on CNC, but geeesh what’s the point? I guess the point is it looks fabulous ;-(

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