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Forum topic by Pizzadave posted 11-11-2018 03:48 AM 735 views 2 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Pizzadave

89 posts in 501 days


11-11-2018 03:48 AM

Topic tags/keywords: armrseal finalcoat finishing

Hello. I have just refinished a family room set that is made of black walnut. I got the old finish off and sanded it down to the bare wood. I then put on a coat of blo mixed with spirits and let dry for a few days. Looked fantastic at this point. I chose arm r seal for the finish which is a wipe on urethane. It’s taking a bit to get a solid Sheen but it’s getting there coat by coat. My question is on the final coat. Dust control is an issue for my shop and it’s also an eye(touch)sore as it seems to make its way to my finish even after taking measures to prevent it. If I let the final coat dry 24 hrs. what can I do to polish the finish to a semigloss luster. I did use a semi for the sheen.

-- Dave, NY, It works-It really does!


17 replies so far

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jmartel

8491 posts in 2569 days


#1 posted 11-11-2018 04:02 AM

What I usually do is use #0000 steel wool and some paste wax. Buff the entire thing with that in small circles to smooth everything out and give it an even sheen. Best to do it in a test area non-visible so you can make sure it’s the way you want it.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

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Pizzadave

89 posts in 501 days


#2 posted 11-11-2018 04:04 AM

Thank you! Does it have to be fully cured first? That would take several weeks and the guy I did it for probably doesn’t want to wait that long.

-- Dave, NY, It works-It really does!

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MJCD

591 posts in 2790 days


#3 posted 11-11-2018 03:47 PM

Just my opinion.

Walnut is an open-grain wood, meaning that it has large pores. You need to fill these if you want a glass-smooth finish. Mixing BLO and mineral spirits gets the BLO into the pores; but the mineral spirits evaporate, and you’re left with 50% of what you put on. Always, Always, let finishes full-cure: for BLO and other oil-based finishes, this can be 24 hours or more. My recommendation is Zinnser SealCoat, two coats.
Personally, I would not use #0000 steel wool: the tips of the steel wool tends to break-off during the burnishing action, and stay in the finish. An alternative is to dry sand at very high grit (600+) if you’re in contact with the wood; then, wet-sand (water mist or water+dawn, then just water-mist; then dry) at very high grits once you are away from the grain.
Given the dust issue that you have, a water-based finish is a better solution; the drying time is much shorter, though, they build more slowly than oil-based finished. You will need about five coats, over the filler, with light sanding in-between, to build enough to fully-cover and protect the Walnut, and to provide enough finish to work to a glass-smooth surface. The good side of this is that water-based finishes can be re-coated after 2+ hours.

Everyone has their own special process; and their own special combination of sealers and finishes… this is mine.

Do Take Care.
MJCD

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Pizzadave

89 posts in 501 days


#4 posted 11-11-2018 03:59 PM

And I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me. Sounds like a Water based finish is quicker. What about Deft brushing lacquer? Is that something that is strong enough for, let’s say, a kitchen table? I am very attracted to the finishing aspect of my woodworking,(who doesn’t) There is so much to learn so I appreciate people, like yourself, that share their information.

-- Dave, NY, It works-It really does!

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a1Jim

117655 posts in 3996 days


#5 posted 11-11-2018 05:23 PM

Arm R Seal is a good product and I think it pops the grain better than water base but it does take longer to dry, and so do most oil homemade finishes. So you can switch to a water-based product, that’s what I prefer because it is has much fewer fumes and does dry much quicker. As for your finish, you can do whats called finishing, it is finish basically sanding the finish with 600 grit sandpaper and after that 1200 grit or use a brown paper bag it’s roughly the same as 1200 grit or you can actually buff the finish by using a polishing rubbing compound this may be to messy for interior wall work.

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AlaskaGuy

5316 posts in 2728 days


#6 posted 11-11-2018 06:14 PM

If you’re using an oil-based finish and you want to make a surface smooth as glass, apply the last coat with “00” steel wool. Rub hard. The steel wool will cut through any nibs or dust on the surface. To capture the grit and to maintain an even sheen, use a bunch of dry rags to wipe off the finish before it dries.

https://www.constructionprotips.com/jobsite-tips/master-the-art-of-wipe-on-poly/

I have actually done this but it sounds reasonable enough to try.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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MJCD

591 posts in 2790 days


#7 posted 11-12-2018 12:10 AM

The Deft Brushing Lacquer is great – I have used this extensively – primarily on rocking chairs (see my Projects, I think there is one there). However, it is not sufficiently hard to be used on a kitchen table: you need to go to a Urethane or an Acrylic. Deft, and other manufacturers, make its lacquer a ‘brushing’ product by slowing the drying time – Lacquers, without retarders, will dry virtually on-contact. Similar to other oil-based finishes, you need a respirators and excellent ventilation during application.

If you are partial to Deft products, as I am, the Deft Acrylic (“Clear Wood Finish”) is a hard & durable finish, and is what I currently use – see my most recent (Office Desk) project.

a1Jim provides excellent guidance; and you can be sure that his approach works.

Again, my personal choice is to stay clear of steel wool; especially with water-based (water-borne) finishes – the great thing about Lumberjocks – there is so much experience brought to bear, that knowledgeable people can disagree based on their individual experience.

View Pizzadave's profile

Pizzadave

89 posts in 501 days


#8 posted 11-12-2018 12:37 AM


Well here is the result thus far. This is the fourth coat of arm r seal and the more coats I applied the more beautiful it got. The guy wanted semigloss and the sheen has improved. Maybe one more coat after wet sanding with 1000 grit????

MJCD, thanks for the info on the deft products.

-- Dave, NY, It works-It really does!

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lumbering_on

578 posts in 909 days


#9 posted 11-12-2018 02:10 AM

I’m sorry, but I can’t see the wood from the shine off of it. :)

I’m no Charles Neil, but I generally avoid sandpaper for the final polish and do a wet sand with Scotch Brite pads. I think they’re around 1200 grit, and they don’t scuff like a sandpaper does. However, it would be good to hear from others.

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MJCD

591 posts in 2790 days


#10 posted 11-12-2018 12:05 PM

lumbering_on:

I’ve heard very good things about your approach; and, I have the pads and I have the projects… I just haven’t done it yet.

Another facet of the finish is the application technique of the material being applied. There is a practiced art of wiping, brushing and spraying; and most of us are humbled by the learning curve.

MJCD

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OSU55

2357 posts in 2408 days


#11 posted 11-12-2018 01:14 PM

Add coats till you get the film thickness you want. Let each coat dry enough that it powders when sanded (depends on temp humidity). Between coats I use 600 dry and just touch the rough spots with a few strokes to cut off the roughness. To finish the finish, I wet sand with 800 to 1200 using mineral spirits. If possible use 1200 to start, depends on surface. Go easy, dont want to sand thru a layer and create ghost lines. Then gray scotchbrite or steel wool with ms to get an even scrach pattern. Larger flat surfaces I use an electric DA polisher with the pads. Finish with wax applied with the pads and then buff out.

Next time you finish with a solvent finish – poly, lacquer, etc, dont waste your time with blo, it adds nothing. These finishes add all the chatoyance of blo and dry faster.

To help with dust, let the shop dust settle. Dampen the floor by spritzing water where you will walk then apply finish.

Waterbase finishes are good but do not provide chatoyance. Shellac, blo, poly all can be used under the wb to create chatoyance – I prefer shellac, best sprayed on large surfaces.

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DrDirt

4577 posts in 4161 days


#12 posted 11-13-2018 04:11 AM

I use the steel wool and wax.

But not all 0000 wool is the same.
I use a liberon steel wool, as it is more uniform than just the steel wool pads from Lowes.

This stuff is on a roll, and you can back it on a cork block if you want to get an even sheen, but it feels like steel “Flannel” instead of steel ‘wool’
Learned this one from Mitch Kohanek.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

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Pizzadave

89 posts in 501 days


#13 posted 11-13-2018 04:30 AM

Wow! Thanks for all the good information everyone! I love to learn especially when it makes a difference. We shall see

-- Dave, NY, It works-It really does!

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Pizzadave

89 posts in 501 days


#14 posted 11-13-2018 04:33 AM

OSU55, the finish to finish application. Does the final coat have to be fully cured?? I’m reading where it takes an entire month for that to happen.

-- Dave, NY, It works-It really does!

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OSU55

2357 posts in 2408 days


#15 posted 11-13-2018 12:40 PM



OSU55, the finish to finish application. Does the final coat have to be fully cured?? I’m reading where it takes an entire month for that to happen.

- Pizzadave


With varnish/poly It is best to wait that long. Depends on the film thickness, thinner is quicker. May sound strange, but smelling the finish is a good indicator. Get your nose right down to the finish – if you can still smell it its too early. For thinner films a week or so can be long enough.

Oil based poly/varnish is a love/hate relationship for me – I love to own poly finished furniture, but I hate the long open time, long cure time, and ghost lines when rubbing out. Precat lacquer is so much easier and faster, as are wb finishes.

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